Anon Proxies and Router

[philip.j.fry]

I want to set up my browser (Firebird on Linux) to use an anonymous proxy, I've tried a number of anon. proxies but every time I check my IP with an online anonymity checker (like the Viper Sig) the IP being returned is either the one assigned to me by NTL or the IP of the NTL proxy and not the anon. proxy.

Is this a problem with using a router (I am using a belkin) or is it some other resolvable issue? Any ideas would be appreciated.

[Chris W]

Originally Posted by philip.j.fry

I want to set up my browser (Firebird on Linux) to use an anonymous proxy, I've tried a number of anon. proxies but every time I check my IP with an online anonymity checker (like the Viper Sig) the IP being returned is either the one assigned to me by NTL or the IP of the NTL proxy and not the anon. proxy.

Is this a problem with using a router (I am using a belkin) or is it some other resolvable issue? Any ideas would be appreciated.

forgive me if i'm wrong, but i think the routers setting will override any proxies specified on the network

can you specify the proxy at router level?

[ntl customer]

Anonymous proxies?

How can you be so sure that these are anonymous? Many seem to be just servers set up off people's DSL/cable connections or unsecured proxies on a corporate network.

[philip.j.fry]

Originally Posted by monkeybreath

forgive me if i'm wrong, but i think the routers setting will override any proxies specified on the network

That's what I thought, just wanted to make doubly sure.

Originally Posted by monkeybreath

can you specify the proxy at router level?

No sadly, now it's going to be a question of whether I think my firewall scripts are secure enough to do without the router or not

Originally Posted by ntl customer

How can you be so sure that these are anonymous? Many seem to be just servers set up off people's DSL/cable connections or unsecured proxies on a corporate network.

A number of sites keep lists of open proxies and test them for anonymity.

[rdhw]

Originally Posted by philip.j.fry

I want to set up my browser (Firebird on Linux) to use an anonymous proxy, I've tried a number of anon. proxies but every time I check my IP with an online anonymity checker (like the Viper Sig) the IP being returned is either the one assigned to me by NTL or the IP of the NTL proxy and not the anon. proxy.

The router should not make any difference. If you wish to use an anonymous web proxy, you must ensure that you use it via a port other than 80. If you attempt to connect to an anonymous proxy via port 80, your request will be intercepted by the NTL transparent proxies.

[Lee]

Originally Posted by rdhw

The router should not make any difference. If you wish to use an anonymous web proxy, you must ensure that you use it via a port other than 80. If you attempt to connect to an anonymous proxy via port 80, your request will be intercepted by the NTL transparent proxies.

Yeah I find this rediculous. NTL are effecively blocking my right to anonyimity

You can connect to a proxy on other ports, but obviously port 80 is the most common. Considering the explosion in 'cleaning' tools for removing cookies etc; which trace your surfing habits, I'm surprised there haven't been more complaints about this. If people are wanting to stop web sites tracking them - hiding your IP address is a good way to do this, but with the transparent proxies - NTL are forcing your IP to be shown.

Just my 2p.

[Frank]

You are right, but actually port 3128 and 8080 are most common for web proxies, not port 80. It's not hard to use an anonymous proxy on one of these ports if you want anonymity. Robin is quite right about not being able to use port 80 proxies and ntl's web caches will intercept the request first.

[Paul M]

Originally Posted by Lee

Yeah I find this rediculous. NTL are effecively blocking my right to anonyimity

You can connect to a proxy on other ports, but obviously port 80 is the most common. Considering the explosion in 'cleaning' tools for removing cookies etc; which trace your surfing habits, I'm surprised there haven't been more complaints about this. If people are wanting to stop web sites tracking them - hiding your IP address is a good way to do this, but with the transparent proxies - NTL are forcing your IP to be shown.

Just my 2p.

Sorry - but you are wrong.

First of all IP addresses are a very poor way to track people as they can change at any time (very few people have long term static IP's). Many people also access via NAT so potentially thousands of machines all appear to have the same IP (we have 3000+ pc's at work that all appear as one IP on the net).

Secondly using a proxy is a poor way to hide your IP as the proxy server will pass the originating IP on to the server as an http variable anyway and more and more software looks for this and records it.

As Keyser point out above - ports 3128 & 8080 are the "standard" ports used for proxy servers, not port 80.

The standard method used to track people is cookies - you could disable these but many sites rely on them to actually work. So you could no longer use the site.

Why are you so worried about hiding anyway ?

Originally Posted by pem

Sorry - but you are wrong.

First of all IP addresses are a very poor way to track people as they can change at any time (very few people have long term static IP's). Many people also access via NAT so potentially thousands of machines all appear to have the same IP (we have 3000+ pc's at work that all appear as one IP on the net).

Secondly using a proxy is a poor way to hide your IP as the proxy server will pass the originating IP on to the server as an http variable anyway and more and more software looks for this and records it.

As Keyser point out above - ports 3128 & 8080 are the "standard" ports used for proxy servers, not port 80.

The standard method used to track people is cookies - you could disable these but many sites rely on them to actually work. So you could no longer use the site.

Why are you so worried about hiding anyway ?

If you have a decent firewall, antivirus and spyware package you have nothing to worry about. I used to use a program called a4 proxy that changes the headers and routes via so called anon proxys but I gave it up.

You are going to be at more risk going via anon proxy's anyway. As stated on this thread most of them are insecure services running on home pc's or business network isa servers, Any of these proxys can record all your web trafic !!!!!! Sniff passwords and log your activities !!!

You are better of conecting normaly......

[Frank]

Originally Posted by pem

Secondly using a proxy is a poor way to hide your IP as the proxy server will pass the originating IP on to the server as an http variable anyway and more and more software looks for this and records it.

Not if the proxy is an anonymous one. I think he's objecting the fact he can't use anonymous proxies on port 80, but hardly any anonymous proxies are on port 80.

[Lee]

Originally Posted by pem

Sorry - but you are wrong.

First of all IP addresses are a very poor way to track people as they can change at any time (very few people have long term static IP's). Many people also access via NAT so potentially thousands of machines all appear to have the same IP (we have 3000+ pc's at work that all appear as one IP on the net).

Yeah I agree in principle, but if you've ever used online shopping recently, your IP address will be recorded along with the transaction. So there must be some value to storing the IP address.
You are correct about NAT tho - same happens at my work.
All I'm saying is that along with cookies your ip is another link in the chain.

Also with the rise of broadband - more & more people are getting semi-static IP addresses. I know mine rarely changes.

Secondly using a proxy is a poor way to hide your IP as the proxy server will pass the originating IP on to the server as an http variable anyway and more and more software looks for this and records it.

Sorry - not true. It wouldnt be an anonymous proxy if it did this!

As Keyser point out above - ports 3128 & 8080 are the "standard" ports used for proxy servers, not port 80.

The standard method used to track people is cookies - you could disable these but many sites rely on them to actually work. So you could no longer use the site.

Hmm well a quick search on various web sites for lists of anonymous proxies seems to show a lot more on port 80 than any other.

Why are you so worried about hiding anyway ?

LOL! This is the standard line most people throw up when you discuss privacy issues with them!

I'm not saying I have anything to hide, and to be fair if I did - a simple proxy is not going to throw off the FBI!

The point is a lot of people make a LOT of money out of tracking surfing/purchasing habits and selling the information on to large corporations who then will use this to 'suggest' products to you when you visit their site.

So surely I should be allowed to choose if i want to give out a unique identifier to who I am? Would you hand out your phone number to anyone?

Also with the advent of scriptkiddies/hackers, developing websites to harvest ip addresses to either attack or use as part of an attack - well you see my point? There are loads of reasons not to give out a UNIQUE identifer to yourself to all and sundry.

[/soapboxoff]

Originally Posted by Lee

Yeah I agree in principle, but if you've ever used online shopping recently, your IP address will be recorded along with the transaction. So there must be some value to storing the IP address.
You are correct about NAT tho - same happens at my work.
All I'm saying is that along with cookies your ip is another link in the chain.

Also with the rise of broadband - more & more people are getting semi-static IP addresses. I know mine rarely changes.



Sorry - not true. It wouldnt be an anonymous proxy if it did this!



Hmm well a quick search on various web sites for lists of anonymous proxies seems to show a lot more on port 80 than any other.



LOL! This is the standard line most people throw up when you discuss privacy issues with them!

I'm not saying I have anything to hide, and to be fair if I did - a simple proxy is not going to throw off the FBI!

The point is a lot of people make a LOT of money out of tracking surfing/purchasing habits and selling the information on to large corporations who then will use this to 'suggest' products to you when you visit their site.

So surely I should be allowed to choose if i want to give out a unique identifier to who I am? Would you hand out your phone number to anyone?

Also with the advent of scriptkiddies/hackers, developing websites to harvest ip addresses to either attack or use as part of an attack - well you see my point? There are loads of reasons not to give out a UNIQUE identifer to yourself to all and sundry.

[/soapboxoff]

I see you sidesteped the isue of your trafic being logged

I do respect your rights to be anon. but there are better ways to do this.

[Paul M]

Originally Posted by Lee

Sorry - not true. It wouldnt be an anonymous proxy if it did this

Well below is a little page I knocked up just to show off a few variables that are available to the server about you when you connect.

http://romulas.zmnt.co.uk/forum/vars.asp

If you route via a proxy then REMOTE_ADDR will be the proxy IP.

HTTP_X_FORWARDED_FOR should contain your real IP [if the proxy is passing it on]

Originally Posted by pem

Well below is a little page I knocked up just to show off a few variables that are available to the server about you when you connect.

http://romulas.zmnt.co.uk/forum/vars.asp

If you route via a proxy then REMOTE_ADDR will be the proxy IP.

HTTP_X_FORWARDED_FOR should contain your real IP [if the proxy is passing it on]

Nice

You'l have to leave that one on line for me pem. !!!!!!!!

[Lee]

Originally Posted by pem

Well below is a little page I knocked up just to show off a few variables that are available to the server about you when you connect.

http://romulas.zmnt.co.uk/forum/vars.asp

If you route via a proxy then REMOTE_ADDR will be the proxy IP.

HTTP_X_FORWARDED_FOR should contain your real IP [if the proxy is passing it on]

Yep anon proxies dont pass on this variable - or pass on a random ip address. Plenty of software out there to check proxys to see if they are anonymous.