China- Freedom of speech is <mod edit: Censored> - Page 2

Kliro · 26-01-2006, 00:23

Quote:

Originally Posted by punky

I can see why... I just don't like it. Comes down to the all-mighty dollar (or in this case, the all-mighty yuan).

Google aren't short of a few bob. I think they could take the high ground, gain respect for it, and still manage to keep the wolves from the door.

Whilst Google may be incredibly rich, they are always competing with other companies to maintain their foothold.

Loosing china means losing 1/6 or so of the worlds population - I doubt they want to pass up on that.

No matter what nice dreams and aims any company starts up with, once they make money, and change their lifestyles, they want to hold onto it, in whatever way possible though.

What would happen if Google didn't censor?? - would they be banned from operating in China?

Damien · 26-01-2006, 00:31

I think China played firewall around what users could search for using it. Making it slow and not partical to use as other stuff would be stopped. Also Google could have been baned altogether

punky · 26-01-2006, 00:44

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kliro

What would happen if Google didn't censor?? - would they be banned from operating in China?

Well they have managed to get this far. The situation was that the site was available through anonymous US proxies sympathetic to anti-online-censorship cause. The Chinese government would block the IP but the proxy would just change their IP and be available in China again. The user wouldn't notice this because they used it through a static hostname. According to Bryn though, Google was actually unbanned several times by China, although this doesn't make much sense. (See here)

It became popular in China precisely because it was illicit and gave Chinese people access to more search results than the official search engine towing the party line. Even due to the fact it spent a lot of time down, it still became very popular. Probably even more so than the official, given time. Plus even if you wanted search results available through the official search engine, for Chinese using Google, it would be very empowering.

kronas · 26-01-2006, 01:24

on the subject of google:

Quote:

Google maintains a lifetime cookie that expires in 2038, and records the user's IP address. But more recently it has begun to integrate services which record the user's personal search history, email, shopping habits, and social contacts.

http://www.theregister.co.uk/2006/01..._privacy_poll/

hmmm...

Shaun · 26-01-2006, 01:28

Quote:

Originally Posted by handyman

The US is all freedom of speech and as such cannot impose such restrictions on google.

Yet, the US do restrict Googles presentation of infomation:

Quote:

Originally Posted by Google.com

In response to a complaint we received under the US Digital Millennium Copyright Act, we have removed 1 result(s) from this page. If you wish, you may read the DMCA complaint that caused the removal(s) at ChillingEffects.org.

http://www.google.com

kronas · 26-01-2006, 01:34

yep thats been there for a few years now!

Shaun · 26-01-2006, 01:36

Quote:

Originally Posted by kronas

on the subject of google:

http://www.theregister.co.uk/2006/01..._privacy_poll/

hmmm...

Trouble is where do you go for a search if you don't use Google......can I guess that all search engines do the same?

Should I even be worried that Google know I just searched for puppy worming tablets, student accommodation in Leicester and Kazaar?

punky · 26-01-2006, 01:50

Quote:

Originally Posted by kronas

on the subject of google:

Quote:

Google maintains a lifetime cookie that expires in 2038, and records the user's IP address. But more recently it has begun to integrate services which record the user's personal search history, email, shopping habits, and social contacts.

http://www.theregister.co.uk/2006/01..._privacy_poll/

hmmm...

Sounds like Google and China are well suited!

---------- Post added at 01:50 ---------- Previous post was at 01:43 ----------

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shaun

Trouble is where do you go for a search if you don't use Google......can I guess that all search engines do the same?

Should I even be worried that Google know I just searched for puppy worming tablets, student accommodation in Leicester and Kazaar?

Well, now you posted that link, most people are drawn into clicking it, so most of CF will probably end up behind bars. Cheers mate

Google actually is unique amongst search engines which is why it produces unique results. Unlike Yahoo, which produces results based on meta keywords, Google does it via accessing links, so therefore the most liked to pages ("popular") will get returned.

If a search engine is banned by China, it will still get known there, as Google already has been.

Chris W · 26-01-2006, 23:31

It appears there are some quite strong opinions on this in China some blogs picked out by the Beeb (note that access to the first was swiftly blocked by the Chinese facist, er i mean capitalist, er i mean communist government)

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/asi...ic/4650158.stm

patrickp · 27-01-2006, 02:01

And note that three out of the four are definitely in favour of Google's action. At least Google seems to be trying to do this honestly: another article says that Google "also claims that it will inform users if the content they access via its search engine has been censored, something that other search firms based in China do not do."

Yahoo, which has had a presence in China for three years, I believe, does not do this.

Let us not forget, as well, that where Google is strongly resisting the American government's attempts to make it reveal confidential information, Yahoo and Microsoft have just rolled over and kowtowed to Bush and his minions.

Strange how this is becoming all about criticising Google for going into China on the most honest basis that they could, rather than Google or Microsoft for doing it exactly how the Chinese government wants them to.

punky · 27-01-2006, 15:38

Google have now removed this question from their support site.

They obviously can't feel that strongly about democracy. Also, democracy is not a good word to mention if you are trying to make money out of the Chinese government.

Shamelessly ripped from El reg.

Damien · 27-01-2006, 17:43

Quote:

Originally Posted by patrickp

And note that three out of the four are definitely in favour of Google's action. At least Google seems to be trying to do this honestly: another article says that Google "also claims that it will inform users if the content they access via its search engine has been censored, something that other search firms based in China do not do."

Yahoo, which has had a presence in China for three years, I believe, does not do this.

Let us not forget, as well, that where Google is strongly resisting the American government's attempts to make it reveal confidential information, Yahoo and Microsoft have just rolled over and kowtowed to Bush and his minions.

Strange how this is becoming all about criticising Google for going into China on the most honest basis that they could, rather than Google or Microsoft for doing it exactly how the Chinese government wants them to.

This is true, The real issue is censorship in china. Not Google obeying it.

After all its either Censored Google, or no Google

punky · 27-01-2006, 17:46

Quote:

Originally Posted by Damien

After all its either Censored Google, or no Google

But a censored Google puts no pressure on the government for reform.

Damien · 27-01-2006, 18:08

Quote:

Originally Posted by punky

But a censored Google puts no pressure on the government for reform.

An uncensored Google is not even there. At least they will know when somethings been censored.

I think its about picking your battles. China will eventually have to allow Free Speech but Google refusing to censor would simply mean no Google

etccarmageddon · 27-01-2006, 18:19

The Chinese fascist state sucks. One day the people will rise up against them and hopefully succeed and finish the job they started in 1989.

http://www.christusrex.org/www1/sdc/tiananmen.html