Have you received a letter from Davenport Lyons or ACS? - Page 31

Raistlin · 26-03-2009, 08:32

Quote:

Originally Posted by Toxic Debt

It didnt surprise me as I run a PC repair shop and have many customers PC's connected to my network at any point in time. Many riddled with hijackers and other virus based software.

Probably not what you want to hear, but you really shouldn't have those PCs networked if you suspect that they're 'riddled with hijackers and other virus based software'.

You're increasing the risk to the machines of other customers, you're allowing that software to continue to contact the Internet and do whatever it was designed to do, and you're opening yourself up to all sorts of possible issues (this one with Davenport Lyons being only the tip of the iceberg).

Onc a machine is suspected of being compromised in that way it's got no place on a network with any other machines.

sniper007 · 26-03-2009, 09:20

I can't believe anyone has responded let alone paid money to these people!

squidge · 27-03-2009, 12:40

I am now on my 3rd letter from Davenport Lyons, everytime I respond they come back with more questions. I have repeatedly stated my innocence, given examples of how this could have happened and asked them to provide some proper evidence against the person they "know" commited the offence. They have never responded to any of my questions, just asked more of their own. This time I have had the request for router info/passwords etc and they are asking me to implicate a third party! Do i actually need to provide this information? Is that not an invasion of privacy?

At the moment I feel that this is going to go on forever, how can I get rid of these people. I have genuinly done nothing wrong and feel I am being persecuted, why should I have to pay Lawdit or anyone else to defend my innocence?

Does anyone know of a genuine legal statement that I can respond with to get them off my back. There are lots of useful posts on here and it has been a great support but it is difficult to decide which advice I should follow as not sure if all posts are accurate and there is lots of conflicting advice, for example I would definately not ignore the letter as I don't wish to end up with a default judgement!!

minimum · 27-03-2009, 14:10

I'm in exactly the same position. No-one in our house did this and I feel the same way about paying for help with something I didn't do.

I wish I knew of something to make it all stop. I've gone through all the forums I can find trying to find real help.

I've sent a letter back with the router details but wouldn't give any password and as for making enquiries - I can imagine the reaction if I questioned neighbours about it, no-one is going to admit it anyway.

Maybe they are just trying to wear us down until we give in and pay.

When you reach 59 years old with no criminal record, not even a speading ticket, the thought of going to court is scary but I, for one, will not give in.

Good luck with it squidge.

squidge · 27-03-2009, 14:38

We are not giving in either, but are worried about the implications these accusations of criminal activity will have on us, My hubby works for the health service and any sniff of a record and he'll be out of a job. I have just e-mailed Which as they have been looking into the matter, hopefully they can give me some pointers. If they do I will pass them on.

The problem we have is how can we prove our innocence when we havn't a clue as to how these things work, we don't know anything about downloading/uploading all we can do is repeat what others tell us.

Good luck

P.S Has anyone out there stopped receiving letters or been told their cas has been dropped?

---------- Post added at 13:38 ---------- Previous post was at 13:35 ----------

Just noticed you've already written to which minimum sorry!!!

**Chris** · 27-03-2009, 14:43

Quote:

Originally Posted by squidge

I am now on my 3rd letter from Davenport Lyons, everytime I respond they come back with more questions. I have repeatedly stated my innocence, given examples of how this could have happened and asked them to provide some proper evidence against the person they "know" commited the offence. They have never responded to any of my questions, just asked more of their own. This time I have had the request for router info/passwords etc and they are asking me to implicate a third party! Do i actually need to provide this information? Is that not an invasion of privacy?

At the moment I feel that this is going to go on forever, how can I get rid of these people. I have genuinly done nothing wrong and feel I am being persecuted, why should I have to pay Lawdit or anyone else to defend my innocence?

Does anyone know of a genuine legal statement that I can respond with to get them off my back. There are lots of useful posts on here and it has been a great support but it is difficult to decide which advice I should follow as not sure if all posts are accurate and there is lots of conflicting advice, for example I would definately not ignore the letter as I don't wish to end up with a default judgement!!

They have absolutely no right to the information they are asking of you. They are simply fishing for information that they hope might make their case stronger. You do not have to respond to their questions. I wouldn't expect them to respond to yours either.

That said, do not just ignore this as you don't want a default judgement if they do decide to go to court.

Others have successfully written to DL in a way that has made them go away. I believe there are examples in this thread. I appreciate it's quite long now but I think you really ought to read it all as you may get useful pointers from it.

minimum · 27-03-2009, 14:57

Which did write to DL on my behalf and I thought the last letter was a result of that but found out here that others have the same letter.

Chris, how would you know when DL have stopped? They leave months between letters and I can't imagine them writing to say they made a mistake and will drop the matter.

There is far too much to read it all and a lot is youngsters full of bravado.

**Chris** · 27-03-2009, 15:02

Having never had a letter from them, I don't know how you would tell when they have 'stopped'. I suspect you may never get a 'we will now leave you alone' letter. Perhaps the best you can hope for is for them to quietly drop it. I think you're winning so long as a court summons doesn't land on your mat. And the evidence from those who have been through that process is that those who have shown themselves willing to defend the issue, don't end up in court.

---------- Post added at 14:02 ---------- Previous post was at 14:00 ----------

Incidentally, there may well be too many posts full of hot air in this thread, but you can narrow things down a bit. Have a scan though until you find someone talking sense, then click their name to the left of their post and choose 'find more posts by' from the drop-down list that will appear.

Then scan down the results page and pick out their posts in this thread.

**Maggy J** · 27-03-2009, 15:17

If I ever get a letter from these crooks I'm going straight to a solicitor as I would with any such letter and meet them in court...If it ever got that far.

TheDaddy · 27-03-2009, 15:34

For anyone that's being bothered by these vultures, I'd suggest firstly reading this thread and then popping down your local Citizens Advice Bureau or sending them an email

http://www.citizensadvice.org.uk/index/getadvice.htm

minimum · 27-03-2009, 15:36

Thanks Chris, I've got to page 17 and getting fed up. I'll try 'find more post by'

---------- Post added at 14:36 ---------- Previous post was at 14:34 ----------

Apparently Citizens advice advised one of there own volunteers, who was in tears as she hadn't done it, to just pay up!

TheDaddy · 27-03-2009, 15:44

Quote:

Originally Posted by minimum

Thanks Chris, I've got to page 17 and getting fed up. I'll try 'find more post by'

---------- Post added at 14:36 ---------- Previous post was at 14:34 ----------

Apparently Citizens advice advised one of there own volunteers, who was in tears as she hadn't done it, to just pay up!

Doesn't shock me actually, some CAB's are fantastic, others sadly leave a lot to be desired I'd still give them a go though.

This members advice was useful IIRC try searching the thread for his posts

cook1984 · 27-03-2009, 16:01

Okay, everyone needs to calm down I think.

Firstly, don't worry, there is absolutely no way you will get a criminal record. Copyright infringement is not a criminal offence, only a civil one which does not give you a criminal record.

Secondly, you will not have to pay Davenport Lyons anything. There is nothing they can do. They are just trying to scare you. If they could win, they would simply sue you rather than demanding money.

I know they can be relentless sometimes, but you just have to be firm with them. In your letter, as well as making it clear you did not infringe the copyright in question, state that you will not conduct an investigation on their behalf and that further legal correspondence will be billed at the rate of £100 per hour. If they write to you again, enclose an invoice for that amount and a copy of your first letter (don't waste time writing a new one). You do not have to respond to their questions, just repeat your statement that your did not do it.

---------- Post added at 15:01 ---------- Previous post was at 14:54 ----------

Okay, everyone needs to calm down I think.

Firstly, don't worry, there is absolutely no way you will get a criminal record. Copyright infringement is not a criminal offence, only a civil one which does not give you a criminal record.

Secondly, you will not have to pay Davenport Lyons anything. There is nothing they can do. They are just trying to scare you. If they could win, they would simply sue you rather than demanding money.

I know they can be relentless sometimes, but you just have to be firm with them. In your letter, as well as making it clear you did not infringe the copyright in question, state that you will not conduct an investigation on their behalf and that further legal correspondence will be billed at the rate of £100 per hour. If they write to you again, enclose an invoice for that amount and a copy of your first letter (don't waste time writing a new one). You do not have to respond to their questions, just repeat your statement that your did not do it.

squidge · 27-03-2009, 16:23

On reading some other forums i am becoming increasingly worried that this is never going to go away. Even when Lawdit have written to DL on behalf of some of the accused, they have still not backed down, standing by their argument that an IP address is enough and that they will obtain a court order to go to the ISP and obtain more information.

I am going to write back today and tell them the truth in that I can't provide info about my router etc as I no longer have the same ISP or equipment....not even the same computer. God knows what they will come up with next, some people on the other forums have been corresponding for up to 2 years!!!

I'll give DL one thing....there bloomin persistant. Incidently my letters seem to come through quite quickly, I have had 3 since end of Jan, some people are waiting months between letters....not sure if this is of any significance.

penumbra · 27-03-2009, 18:39

Quote:

Originally Posted by squidge

On reading some other forums i am becoming increasingly worried that this is never going to go away. Even when Lawdit have written to DL on behalf of some of the accused, they have still not backed down, standing by their argument that an IP address is enough and that they will obtain a court order to go to the ISP and obtain more information.

I am going to write back today and tell them the truth in that I can't provide info about my router etc as I no longer have the same ISP or equipment....not even the same computer. God knows what they will come up with next, some people on the other forums have been corresponding for up to 2 years!!!

I'll give DL one thing....there bloomin persistant. Incidently my letters seem to come through quite quickly, I have had 3 since end of Jan, some people are waiting months between letters....not sure if this is of any significance.

Welcome to the world of law.

As cook 1984 said, this is not a criminal matter, you will never get a criminal record from this business.

Davenport Lyons have certainly displayed quite a flurry of activity recently. This isn't that unusual behaviour. It's probably either to get everything in before the SRA complaint is completed, or to unsettle you.

According to UK law, they have 6 years from the date of the alleged infringement to take you to court. It is astonishingly unlikely that they will admit they are in any way wrong, preferring instead to let the 6 years lapse without comment.

It is also astonishingly unlikely they will take you to court if you have already replied and denied. Davenport Lyons take great care never to accuse you of doing anything - they have no proof of that. Their only evidence is an IP address which only identifies your connection. They state, with grand words and much lawyerly hand waving that they will hold you responsible for the infringement.

There is no legal method for them to do this (which doesn't stop them from trying). Unfortunately, you cannot take an internet connection to court. Try shouting at your phone socket to see if £500 comes out. I'm willing to bet it won't.

Look at it this way: If it were the case that the person providing the connection could be held liable for infringement (which they did not authorise), every ISP in the country would have been out of business a long time ago.

Relax. They have sent out letters stating "we are preparing court papers as we speak" to people. That was in 2007. Nothing has happened.