New Kitchen needs a new Dist board?

Wicked_and_Crazy · 11-04-2006, 12:21

Anyone up to date with Part P certification. I'm affraid im a bit out of date in this area.

I'm have a kitchen designed and then installed. One of the designers that came round to the house mentioned that for the kitchen to be Part P certificated id have to have a new distribution board as the one thats installed uses fuse wire and not RCD's.

Is this the case or is he just trying to make money? I agreed that an RCD dist board is better but why should this affect the installation of a kitchen and its certification?

He was basically saying that if i had any electrical work carried out the dist board would need to be replaced??

**Rob** · 11-04-2006, 12:34

Any wiring that is carried out will need to meet current IEE regulations if it is also to get Building Regulations Part P approval.

If your current wiring hasn't been upgraded for some time it probably isn't up to the latest safety standards.

Older style fusewire boards can be upgraded by replacing the fuses with MCB (circuit breakers), but that just means that if there is an overload the MCB will trip much more promptly and accurately than the fusewire would have done.

RCD provides protection against current leakage to earth. It thus protects against electrical shock - you might still get a shock but the RCD should trip before it becomes fatal.

You can add a RCD as a separate unit next to the existing fuseboard, either in line after the fuseboard on the single circuit serving the kitchen, or more generally in line before the fuseboard so it serves all of the house.

By the time you've messed around upgrading the fusewire board, and adding a RCD, it might become just as cost effective to have a new consumer unit fitted.

If your wiring hasnt been touched for a while you will porbably also need to have the earth cross bonding (green yellow wires between pipes and things) upgraded too.

Wicked_and_Crazy · 11-04-2006, 12:41

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rob C

Any wiring that is carried out will need to meet current IEE regulations if it is also to get Building Regulations Part P approval.

If your current wiring hasn't been upgraded for some time it probably isn't up to the latest safety standards.

Older style fusewire boards can be upgraded by replacing the fuses with MCB (circuit breakers), but that just means that if there is an overload the MCB will trip much more promptly and accurately than the fusewire would have done.

RCD provides protection against current leakage to earth. It thus protects against electrical shock - you might still get a shock but the RCD should trip before it becomes fatal.

You can add a RCD as a separate unit next to the existing fuseboard, either in line after the fuseboard on the single circuit serving the kitchen, or more generally in line before the fuseboard so it serves all of the house.

By the time you've messed around upgrading the fusewire board, and adding a RCD, it might become just as cost effective to have a new consumer unit fitted.

If your wiring hasnt been touched for a while you will porbably also need to have the earth cross bonding (green yellow wires between pipes and things) upgraded too.

I understand what the differences are between fuses and RCD's etc having spent time as an electrical engineer. What im trying to grasp is why replacing a cooker requires a new consumer unit given that its going to be wired into the existing socket.

The house is about 20years old so the wiring is fine.

i suspect that we will end up with the odd socket or two being moved but this has no impact on the consumer unit at all

**Rob** · 11-04-2006, 12:53

Part P Building Regulations apply to any electrical work done in the kitchen, including alterations to existing circuits and sockets.

An electrician, when he carries out any work has to self certify that the work he has done leaves the wiring that he has altered / installed in a safe condition, to the current wiring standards. He has to be certain that the circuit involved will meet the performance set down in the IEE regulations, and that includes fuses, voltage, resistivity, etc.

It's because electricians wern't doing the self certification bit - they've had that duty long before the Part P came in - that the Buiding Regulations got tightened up.

Wicked_and_Crazy · 11-04-2006, 12:56

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rob C

Part P Building Regulations apply to any electrical work done in the kitchen, including alterations to existing circuits and sockets.

An electrician, when he carries out any work has to self certify that the work he has done leaves the wiring that he has altered / installed in a safe condition, to the current wiring standards.

correct, but why does the cosumer unit need to be replaced? Effectively what they are saying is it needs to be replaced to be safe. Therefore they are saying its not safe now so why isnt there a program of change to ensure everyone has their consumer unit chaged?

Just seems to be a scam for a bit more work to me.

handyman · 11-04-2006, 12:57

Is fitting an electric cooker to an existing point something that the householder could do themselves. After all Its like fitting an over size plug. I have fitted 100s of cookers when I sold them?

**Rob** · 11-04-2006, 13:00

Cookers, by their nature are hefty electrical devices. They get permanantly wired, rather than plugged in. That within the rules is no doubt an alteration to an elecctrical circuit.

It's a little bit like gas cookers should only be installed by a corgi registered fitter (I think we did a debate on that a few weeks ago).

---------- Post added at 13:00 ---------- Previous post was at 12:58 ----------

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wicked_and_Crazy

correct, but why does the cosumer unit need to be replaced? Effectively what they are saying is it needs to be replaced to be safe. Therefore they are saying its not safe now so why isnt there a program of change to ensure everyone has their consumer unit chaged?

Just seems to be a scam for a bit more work to me.

Actually it is recommended that everyone has their wiring tested every 10 years. It's just that very few of us do. This is frequently becoming an issue when houses are sold (it already is an issue for letting property), and certainly is going to be something people will want to know about when the new Home Information Packs come in next year.

greencreeper · 11-04-2006, 18:43

When I moved here there was no cooker point and to fit one the electrician had to replace the consumer unit. So far as I understand, an electrician can't just waltz in, install some nice shiny new wiring, etc., and ignore the dodgy wiring he's connecting it too. Has to make it all right. It would be like fitting a hard disk in a server with no CPU heatsink.

Wicked_and_Crazy · 11-04-2006, 20:13

Quote:

Originally Posted by handyman

Is fitting an electric cooker to an existing point something that the householder could do themselves. After all Its like fitting an over size plug. I have fitted 100s of cookers when I sold them?

my point entirely

Problem solved, i've managed to get the kitchen installers to fit a new consumer unit at no extra cost