Any tradesmen/women present?

[AdamD]

Looking to modernise our house abit

I'm currently living in a semi detached, 3 bedoom bungalow

We don't have central heating, all the rooms have those nasty electric storage? heaters on the walls.
So ideally we're looking to get a combi boiler (I think? heh) and a few rads (5 double radiators, all with thermostats on them)
I believe a combi boiler means we can trash the hot/cold water tanks and have "Instant" heat for hot water when we need it, is that right?

Does anyone know how much that'd cost including labour? (On average)

Also, another unusual job we're wanting to have done this year, is for someone to remove our garage door and replace it with french style doors, we want to convert the garage into a type of outside retreat with bar etc in it.

anyone know how much that'd cost?

Thanks in advance

[Nugget]

I might be wrong (shock!), but I seem to remember hearing a while ago that you can't actually get Combi boilers installed anymore (something to do with emissions?).

these days you probably would be looking at a condensing boiler, which are more efficient than combi ones, but still give the 'instant' hot water, so you can get rid of the tanks.

No idea on costs, sorry - the boilers are not cheap and installation costs will depend on things like whether you have solid floors & want all the pipes hiding, etc.

- always get at least couple of quotes e.g from someone like British Gas & a local Corgi registered heating engineer.

[Xaccers]

Phone BG and see if you can be put through to their energy saving department and find out if there are any grants you're entitled too aswell, could save a couple of hundred quid, you never know.

[Saaf_laandon_mo]

If you tell me where you live (and if its close to London) I can recommend you aq very good builder.

[Rob]

Converting the garage - be careful that what you do doesn't devalue the house by personalising it to much for you. You, and most buyers may not use a garage for a car, but the stroage space for our modern lifestyle kit (bicycles, etc) is invaluable. If you do convert think about the parking - do you still have enough without a garage? If you are doing a personal fit out of the space, can that easily be reversed.

[etccarmageddon]

Originally Posted by AdamD

So ideally we're looking to get a combi boiler (I think? heh) and a few rads (5 double radiators, all with thermostats on them)
I believe a combi boiler means we can trash the hot/cold water tanks and have "Instant" heat for hot water when we need it, is that right?

instant but very variable hot water - one minute you'll be getting cold then you'll be scalding yourself unless you get a dogs thingy combi with in built water resovoiur. personally, I'd get a condensing normal boiler with the usual hot tank - you get a level heat out of your hot taps and the boiler is cheaper to buy and maintain and has a longer life. you should get 25 years out of a normal boiler - a combi I am told has 1/2 the life span. a can not stress enough how combis are crap when it comes to hot water temperatures.

---------- Post added at 16:34 ---------- Previous post was at 16:31 ----------

my combi has a heat level on it - so in winter you put it at the top - the problem is this also means the hot water you get is often too hot for your hands. what a pile of donkey poo. same at my parents and at my mates. in my old house I had one with a water resovoiur - it was a massive boiler but it meant the hot water was always at the same temp. the only thing is, British Gas wont do any form of maintenance on it as it's deemed as requiring an 'expert' to work on it!!!

[Nugget]

I knew I'd read it somewhere:

Originally Posted by The Guardian 02/04/2005

From this weekend, every household in the country will have to switch over to a new-style "condensing" gas boiler when the old one needs replacing

For anyone who's interested, here's the the full article:

http://money.guardian.co.uk/consumer...450345,00.html

[etccarmageddon]

a model similar to this is what I had:-

http://www.potterton.co.uk/products/...owermax_HE.pdf

---------- Post added at 16:41 ---------- Previous post was at 16:38 ----------

by 'eck that's one mean machine!!!

[AdamD]

Wow thanks for all the information
Yea i'm just reading about the boiler types, condensing is the one that'll be required by law.

If you do convert think about the parking - do you still have enough without a garage? If you are doing a personal fit out of the space, can that easily be reversed.

Yea, there's enough parking for 2 cars even without the garage

[SMHarman]

Originally Posted by AdamD

Looking to modernise our house abit

I'm currently living in a semi detached, 3 bedoom bungalow

We don't have central heating, all the rooms have those nasty electric storage? heaters on the walls.
So ideally we're looking to get a combi boiler (I think? heh) and a few rads (5 double radiators, all with thermostats on them)
I believe a combi boiler means we can trash the hot/cold water tanks and have "Instant" heat for hot water when we need it, is that right?

Does anyone know how much that'd cost including labour? (On average)

How many of you live there - or are likely to live there. A combi only really works in a small flat where you will have one using a shower and the other not using any water, once you get other things in the house trying to use water at the same time (say bathroom and toilet sink, or kitchen sink, or washing machine) it will take a hit and cool water down.

The better option IMHO would be a condensing boiler and a megaflow or similar pressurised hot water solution. Same effect just guaranteed 170 odd litres of hot water on demand. This also heats the rads.

Originally Posted by adamd

Also, another unusual job we're wanting to have done this year, is for someone to remove our garage door and replace it with french style doors, we want to convert the garage into a type of outside retreat with bar etc in it.

anyone know how much that'd cost?

check with building regs on this one too. You may need planning permission or to do more work than you think you need, second skin of brickwork on the front wall etc.

Cost of Plumbing. Most of the cost is due to the huge amount of time spent in prep / tidy up. If you want to volunteer for that you could save ££Ã ¡Ãƒâ€šÃ‚£ by pulling up the floor boards necessary to run the pipes and putting them back afterwards.

Thanks in advance[/QUOTE]

[etccarmageddon]

yeah the problem is you're in a bungalow so the pressure from a hot water tank will be poor - so as said above make sure you have a "pressurised hot water solution". or you could be clever and get a solar powered hot water setup - should be easier to install on a bungalow!

---------- Post added at 17:13 ---------- Previous post was at 17:11 ----------

I use a combi which also feeds the shower - so when the boiler breaks you have no heat and no hot water and a cold shower! it also means when you use the shower your bog has no water coming to it so takes ages to refill and also when the hot water is running the heating isn't getting much if any heat to the radiators.

---------- Post added at 17:14 ---------- Previous post was at 17:13 ----------

so if you have a hot water tank make sure you get an immersion heater element included and wired up so if your gas goes you can heat a tank using elecy.

---------- Post added at 17:15 ---------- Previous post was at 17:14 ----------

my previous house had a normal boiler with a hot water tank which fed the shower - the water pressure/volume coming out of the shower was pants due to the tank being a normal hot water tank and not a pressurised one.

[AdamD]

At the moment, all we have is a tank with an immersion heater
It works well enough, but the taps and pipes in this place suck
For some reason they put sink taps on the bath, so it takes AGES to fill up (it's also a big, cast iron bath to, heh)

You can't get a full or 3/4 bath with just the tank alone, it runs cold to fast, so you have to either have a 60% full bath, or use the electric shower as well to add more hot water, which sucks

My stepdad had a combi boiler installed and although the instant heat is nice, it has issues
Namely the water will start out hot, then suddenly drop to cool, then to boiling, then to cool again, horrible thing

As I understand it, the new condenser types heat water "On the fly" right? or do they use a tank as well?
We ideally want to get rid of the tank, for another future project (knocking down the larder area in the kitchen)

[etccarmageddon]

no a condenser type is just a normal boiler which is more effectient than the old ones. but condensers have been around for years.

---------- Post added at 17:37 ---------- Previous post was at 17:34 ----------

http://www.plumbdoctor.co.uk/Default.aspx?tabid=161

---------- Post added at 17:45 ---------- Previous post was at 17:37 ----------

Originally Posted by AdamD

At the moment, all we have is a tank with an immersion heater
It works well enough, but the taps and pipes in this place suck
For some reason they put sink taps on the bath, so it takes AGES to fill up (it's also a big, cast iron bath to, heh)

You can't get a full or 3/4 bath with just the tank alone, it runs cold to fast, so you have to either have a 60% full bath, or use the electric shower as well to add more hot water, which sucks

sounds like your system is old and clapped out!

My stepdad had a combi boiler installed and although the instant heat is nice, it has issues Namely the water will start out hot, then suddenly drop to cool, then to boiling, then to cool again, horrible thing

my advise is simple - if you go for a combi you should get an expensive one or you will have these problems. And dont believe a plumber will listen to you as my parents asked for one which would have good hot water temp levels but got the same crap as your stepdad. worsester/bosch is their make. pile of crap.


It all depends on how much you are willing to spend and the quality of the people you deal with. Firstly dont approach british gas as they will rip you off and treat you like a number. Find someone local who has references which you must check on - someone who has time to listen to your needs, check out your local new builds - visit show homes and find ones where they are getting quality expensive boilers and then find out who fits them - a builder usually uses a local contractor. Bag the local contractor to do you one - after you've been in the show home and checked the water is of a stable temp. Also check on any forums you can find re plumbing and what's the best boiler. look out for a british gas van and stop and ask the engineer for his opinions on what's the best combi you should have.

[Rob]

Condensing boilers can still be combination boilers.

Originally you had a standard boiler. That just heated water that was then distributed via the heating system pipework to radiators and/or the domestic hot water storage cylinder, before the cooler water returned to the boiler for reheating again.

Combination boilers also heat water that is distributed around the house to radiators and returnded back to the boiler for reheating and redistribution. Meanwhile a separate heat exchanger component in the boiler directly heated the domestic hot water. The maximum rate of flow of water accross the bolier exchanger limits the amount of domestic hot water the boiler can supply at any one time. Typically such boilers can only serve a 1/2" sized pipe bore, which has to do the whole house. However such a pipe is usually at mains pressure, rather than a lower pressure that would be used if you have roof space cold water tanks. With a cold water and hot water tank system the pipes to baths are usually 3/4" diameter to compensate.

The idea behind water tanks is that they should be large enough (cold water) to supply a house for a day's needs (not that easy in todays lifestyles of washing machines, etc). Hot water storage should be sufficient to allow for the reheat time - often worked our as half an hour but that depends on your boiler.

Some combination boilers try to even out the issues of drawing off small amounts of hot water by having a very small capacity hot water storage cylinder integral to the boiler.

Many combination boilers can only heat hot water or the heating circuits - and will prioritise the hot water. They are reliant on the mains water pressure - if that fluctuates or is low the boiler will not work properly. That is a frequent issue in some areas now, especially in summer when ther are a lot of garden hoses being run, and as our population ever increases.

Condensing boilers can work as both the traditional boiler, or a combination boiler. Before condensing boilers were introduced, much of the heat from the burnt gas was wasted and lost with the flue emissions. A condensing boiler seeks to recover much of that wasted energy, by adding ewxtra heat exchangers. Condensing boilers work most efficiently if they can run for long periods rather than stop start so the heat on demand condensing application often shows little energy savings.

Realistically, yes you need to have a condensing boiler - due to this government's energy efficiency regulations - but it can be a traditional or combination type. Thus what you install will depend on your needs.

If the house has relatively low occupation, combinations can work well. 3 bedroom houses, wiht adults and teenagers I'd say needs a standard type boiler with a hot water storage cylinder. That cylinder can be the megaflo type (which means it's at mains pressure) allowing you to avoid tansk and pipes in the roof, but that doesn't help your space savings in the house itself. If the decision is marginal then the condensing combination boiler will save you labour costs with less pipes, and space by avoiding all needs of tanks.