Incompetent DVLA

[Escapee]

My problems started about a month ago, when I received a fine through the post for not declaring an off road vehicle SORN.

I sent off an angry letter because even though I have currently 22 cars, I remember the SORN fiasco for that vehicle very well. I decided to use their online facility to declare the vehicle SORN, I followed the instructions upto the point they required a reference number off the V11W form. I couldn't find any reference number so clicked on help! The help info showed a levely example of the V11 form with a reference number in the Yellow box marked "for official use only" I got the welsh versions of some old V11 forms out and none of them had reference numbers either.

They also allowed the online form to be filled in with a number off the V5C if the V11 number was not available, I decided that I had wasted enough time so just filled in the V11 and posted it. As per usual I wrote on the Welsh version of the V11 marking it as done and dating it for my records.

After explaining all this in a letter and pointing out that their system online is still the same and susequent V11's I have received all miss the required reference number, they returned my cheque and said they would not be proceeding with a fine.

I bought another vehicle two weeks ago for a long term restoration project, it had a tax disc dated November 1996 displayed and an old MOT that also ran out in November 1996. Now it would be a natural assumption that as the vehicle was offroad before SORN came into force in 1998, that I didn't have to worry.

I decided however to waste some of my time by phoning DVLA to check, they said "The vehicle is declared SORN Sir, you need to fill in a V890 yourself as SORN is not transferable to the new owner"!

They could offer no explanation as to why the vehicle had been declared SORN, other than an owner had done it because he thought it was necessary.
So, if I hadn't wasted time phoning the DVLA due to my previous fiasco with them, I would of got a fine for not Taxing or decarling SORN a vehicle that has been off the road since 1996.

I find it very strange that I have to fill in V11's every year for a couple of vehicles that are boxes of bits in my garages, one guy at work has a motorbike stripped down to bits in his attic and he has to fill in the V11 every year.

This is a money spinning excersize for the DVLA, SORN was introduced to stop unlicenced vehicles being used on the road, but as most poorly thought out government department rules its a farce.

The latest rumour in the classic car industry is that all vehicles, even ones declared SORN and stored off the public highway will have to be insured. that will probably mean I have to insure those boxes of bits in my garages.

[Graham]

Originally Posted by Escapee

I find it very strange that I have to fill in V11's every year for a couple of vehicles that are boxes of bits in my garages, one guy at work has a motorbike stripped down to bits in his attic and he has to fill in the V11 every year.

Can't you just cut off the parts with the relevant VIN and number plate details and send them to the DVLA and say "Look! See! OFF the road, ok?!"

[patrickp]

See this DVLA page, Escapee. It quite clearly says "You only need to make a SORN for a vehicle that had a licence in force on or after 31 January 1998."

Originally Posted by Escapee

I couldn't find any reference number so clicked on help!

I recently tried the online system, all I had was the V<whatever> - i.e. the one that arrives AFTER the 'reminder'. Indeed, no reference number on that one.

As I was not in the UK and unable to access the V5, it was rather worrying whether I'd end up with grief.

Originally Posted by Escapee

They also allowed the online form to be filled in with a number off the V5C if the V11 number was not available,

As soon as I got back I had the SORN done with the V5 info. Just recently got the written confirmation back. Easy peasy.

Originally Posted by Escapee

they returned my cheque and said they would not be proceeding with a fine.

Must have been a relief.

Originally Posted by Escapee

They could offer no explanation as to why the vehicle had been declared SORN, other than an owner had done it because he thought it was necessary.

I wonder if, when they brought the system in, they simply went through the system tagging all cars that had not been taxed for a certain time as 'SORN'. Since the requirement to tax (and hence to declare SORN) comes with sale/transfer of ownership, any such vehicles still 'in circulation' would automatically get picked up.
But I think the 'pre 1998' rule is confusing in the situation where you buy a car that's been sat around quietly being ignored by the system.

Originally Posted by Escapee

I find it very strange that I have to fill in V11's every year for a couple of vehicles that are boxes of bits in my garages, one guy at work has a motorbike stripped down to bits in his attic and he has to fill in the V11 every year.

You don't have to - simply 'scrap' the vehicle. I have done this on a couple of occasions - the boxes of bits are in my garage, and I have never declared them SORN. (I'm assuming, that you are not keeping the shell to rebuild.)

Originally Posted by Escapee

This is a money spinning excersize for the DVLA, SORN was introduced to stop unlicenced vehicles being used on the road, but as most poorly thought out government department rules its a farce.

Considering that the DVLA runs the whole paper chase without charging anything there's not too much to complain about. They could easily have decided to charge a fee for SORN - they might still do that, one day.

Originally Posted by Escapee

The latest rumour in the classic car industry is that all vehicles, even ones declared SORN and stored off the public highway will have to be insured. that will probably mean I have to insure those boxes of bits in my garages.

Insured for what? This sounds like a rumour designed to give something to debate down the local pub. I fail to see any possible reasoning for that.

Unless they want to force as many undriven cars as possible onto the scrap heap.

[Escapee]

Originally Posted by ScaredWebWarrior

I recently tried the online system, all I had was the V<whatever> - i.e. the one that arrives AFTER the 'reminder'. Indeed, no reference number on that one.

As I was not in the UK and unable to access the V5, it was rather worrying whether I'd end up with grief.
As soon as I got back I had the SORN done with the V5 info. Just recently got the written confirmation back. Easy peasy.
Must have been a relief.
I wonder if, when they brought the system in, they simply went through the system tagging all cars that had not been taxed for a certain time as 'SORN'. Since the requirement to tax (and hence to declare SORN) comes with sale/transfer of ownership, any such vehicles still 'in circulation' would automatically get picked up.
But I think the 'pre 1998' rule is confusing in the situation where you buy a car that's been sat around quietly being ignored by the system.
You don't have to - simply 'scrap' the vehicle. I have done this on a couple of occasions - the boxes of bits are in my garage, and I have never declared them SORN. (I'm assuming, that you are not keeping the shell to rebuild.)
Considering that the DVLA runs the whole paper chase without charging anything there's not too much to complain about. They could easily have decided to charge a fee for SORN - they might still do that, one day.
Insured for what? This sounds like a rumour designed to give something to debate down the local pub. I fail to see any possible reasoning for that.

Unless they want to force as many undriven cars as possible onto the scrap heap.

The whole SORN situation is a farce, I dont see how it stops people driving un-taxed vehicles. They declare the vehicle SORN and then carry on driving it.
The owner of my latest purchase went to the great scrapyard in the sky, so it was difficult to find out from his family about SORN etc. I have purchased another vehicle that has been offroad pre-SORN, the previous owner had it sat in one of my garages anyway but I never got any fine or forms to fill in for SORN after receiving the new V5C for it.
I am not intending to scrap the vehicles, as they are nicely hibernated away in my garages for long term restoration when time permits.

As for rumours down the pub! I understand there is a consultation paper about to be put in front of the house in the near future, this apparently contains the so called rumour about off road SORN vehicles needing to be insured. The FBHVC as I understand have seen the proposed bill and are very worried about the implications, I also read that the DVLA will be offering to scrap vehicles and put them back on at a later date when the owner wishes to return the vehicle to the road. I understand there is great concern because it looks like the DVLA are intending to use this tactic as a way of stripping cars of their registration number for re-sale.

I guess this adds up to a vast amount of revenue for the DVLA, I have a few stored vehicles with numbers worth thousands when compared to similar numbers currently on sale by the DVLA. I disagree with selling the original number of a classic vehicle, but on the other hand I would rather sell the number myself than let the DVLA make money out of it.

Originally Posted by Escapee

The whole SORN situation is a farce, I dont see how it stops people driving un-taxed vehicles. They declare the vehicle SORN and then carry on driving it..

But if caught, there is then no-way to pretend that the tax is 'in the post' or forgotten etc.

I once got pounced on by a copper when returning to my car. My tax disc had expired, and I'd forgotten to renew it. Anyway, to cut a long story short, I told him my tax application was 'in the post' and made sure that same day that my hand delivered (whoops, no post mark) application arrived at the PO.
Now, in that case, I was ok - had I'd SORN'ed the car then I'd have been busted. (BTW - this was MANY years before SORN had even been thought of.)

Originally Posted by Escapee

I am not intending to scrap the vehicles, as they are nicely hibernated away in my garages for long term restoration when time permits..

I just meant 'scrapping' the cars from which the boxes of bits came. And by 'scrapping' I mean ticking the box on the V5 and sending it off - not actually scrapping the car.
I did just this when I bought a car for it's engine. Don't need a V5 for an engine - or even for a complete car, in bits.

Originally Posted by Escapee

As for rumours down the pub! I understand there is a consultation paper about to be put in front of the house in the near future, this apparently contains the so called rumour about off road SORN vehicles needing to be insured. .

But insured for what? Here we are, with stored vehicles off the public highway. What could possibly befall anyone due to that stored car? (After all I don't have to insure any of my property for anything.)

Originally Posted by Escapee

I also read that the DVLA will be offering to scrap vehicles and put them back on at a later date when the owner wishes to return the vehicle to the road. I understand there is great concern because it looks like the DVLA are intending to use this tactic as a way of stripping cars of their registration number for re-sale.

I'd have great concernt oo, but only because that would open the floodgates to ringers and rip-off merchants who tart up write-offs and then sell them. All that just for the number plates? Doesn't add up.