Are 'Thieving fare dodgers' any worse than downloaders?

[Mr Angry]

Originally Posted by Matt D

But not every show which gets downloaded is something the viewer would want to watch again, so no box set would have been purchased anyway. Just as not every show someone watches on broadcast TV will be something the viewer wants to watch again and again, and so will not be purchased on DVD. Plus of course if a show has not actually been broadcast in the UK, there will be no DVDs released in the UK to purchase.

Again, the point still stands. If you want to watch / own a copy of something and the normal (legal) course of your doing so requires you to purchase it then there is no justifiable excuse for not doing so. Whether someone wants to watch someting time and again is irrelevant. How they acquired it is the point.

[martyh]

The problem with using downloading as a example is that it could be argued that a person has paid through the subscription/licence for the tv shows,and therefore is doing wrong .Downloading copyrighted material for profit is obviously wrong but someone like me who downloads Merlin on friday night instead of waiting for saturday is doing nothing wrong imo

[Mr Angry]

Originally Posted by martyh

The problem with using downloading as a example is that it could be argued that a person has paid through the subscription/licence for the tv shows,and therefore is doing wrong .Downloading copyrighted material for profit is obviously wrong but someone like me who downloads Merlin on friday night instead of waiting for saturday is doing nothing wrong imo

It may well be your opinion but you'd be wrong Marty.

[martyh]

Originally Posted by Mr Angry

You'd be wrong on both counts Marty.

How so ?

[Mr Angry]

Originally Posted by martyh

How so ?

You're a grown man Marty, I'm quite sure you know that the act of downloading copyright material without permission is illegal - irrespective of whether it's going to be broadcast the next night, week or month.

[martyh]

Originally Posted by Mr Angry

You're a grown man Marty, I'm quite sure you know that the act of downloading copyright material without permission is illegal - irrespective of whether it's going to be broadcast the next night, week or month.

I pay my licence ,i pay my sky subscription (which includes paying for shows i do not watch)so how haven't i paid for the privelidge of watching them .To use Merlin as a example ,if i choose i can download the show from BBC I player so where is the difference between downloading from a newsgroup or a torrent site ?.If i download a film from TPB ,yes i am stealing copyrighted material but if i download the same film from Sky Go i am not because i will only have access to watch it for a limited time .

[chris9991]

When is a thief not a thief? Surely all thieves should be processed within the same court? Because of downloaders stealing who know how many jobs have been lost due to films/TV series not being made/cancelled. There are a lot people who work in the background who don't have high salaries and with lower revenues, the jobs are harder to come about. Maybe it would be better if they were out of work collecting dole

[Mr Angry]

Originally Posted by martyh

I pay my licence ,i pay my sky subscription (which includes paying for shows i do not watch)so how haven't i paid for the privelidge of watching them .

You've got a driving licence, it doesn't confer a right to drive however you see fit, does it?

Originally Posted by martyh

To use Merlin as a example ,if i choose i can download the show from BBC I player so where is the difference between downloading from a newsgroup or a torrent site ?.

iplayer is "after the fact" . An agreed rate will have been paid to the content / copyright holder in order for the BBC to be able to make it available and with certain restrictions. That is not the case with newsgroups / torrent sites.

Originally Posted by martyh

If i download a film from TPB ,yes i am stealing copyrighted material but if i download the same film from Sky Go i am not because i will only have access to watch it for a limited time .

"Stealing" is debatable but them's the breaks.

You've admitted that you engage in illegal activity because in your opinion doing so is "doing no wrong".

That's a rather (conveniently) naive position to take.

[martyh]

Originally Posted by Mr Angry

You've got a driving licence, it doesn't confer a right to drive however you see fit, does it?



iplayer is "after the fact" . An agreed rate will have been paid to the content / copyright holder in order for the BBC to be able to make it available and with certain restrictions. That is not the case with newsgroups / torrent sites.



"Stealing" is debatable but them's the breaks.

You've admitted that you engage in illegal activity because in your opinion doing so is "doing no wrong".

That's a rather (conveniently) naive position to take.

Naive or not but it does rather show Danielfs point ,i and thousands of others view certain types of downloading legal ,you and thousands of others do not .I'm not sure if downloading tv shows has ever been tested in court seperate from downloading films/music but it would be an interesting case

[Hugh]

The law doesn't view it as legal, and that is what counts.....

[Mr Angry]

What he said.

[Matt D]

Originally Posted by Mr Angry

Again, the point still stands. If you want to watch / own a copy of something and the normal (legal) course of your doing so requires you to purchase it then there is no justifiable excuse for not doing so. Whether someone wants to watch someting time and again is irrelevant. How they acquired it is the point.

What about downloading versus watching on broadcast TV, rather than versus buying/renting a DVD/BD?

No purchasing there, unless you want to class the TV Licence and perhaps also a Sky/VM subscription as purchasing.

If you have a TV Licence and (if necessary) you have a Sky/VM subscription then what is morally wrong - not legally wrong, as this thread isn't asking that - with downloading something instead of watching it on BBC1 or Sky 1 or FX etc.?

The BBC still has your money either way. Sky/VM still has your money either way.

OK, if it's something on a commercial channel then you're also avoiding watching the adverts, but... with the widespread use of PVRs now how many people watch adverts anyway? I don't. If I'm watching something on Sky 1 or another commercial channel I record the whole thing to watch later, or I pause it for a while and watch it on a delay... Either way, I FFWD the adverts.


Going back to purchasing, what if there is no option to purchase something, as is the case with TV series which have yet to reach the UK, or TV series which simply are not shown in the UK anymore (such as the aforementioned Breaking Bad).

Some do eventually get a Region 2 DVD release (Sons of Anarchy's third season was released on DVD here a couple of months ago, so hopefully we'll get season 4 and onwards too), so sure, they can and should be rented/purchased once available. But what of those which are only ever released on Region 1 DVD? Sure, you can import them, but doesn't that technically throw up other issues with copyright / licensing?

[Chris]

There's an argument that it's morally wrong because it's legally wrong - the law being the agreed set of rules a society has chosen to live by.

Aside from that, the way you download may be relevant. If you use a P2P system, you're complicit in allowing people who have not paid their TV licence, or their Sky subs, to get the tv show as well.

[Mr Angry]

Originally Posted by Matt D

What about downloading versus watching on broadcast TV, rather than versus buying/renting a DVD/BD?

No purchasing there, unless you want to class the TV Licence and perhaps also a Sky/VM subscription as purchasing.

If you have a TV Licence and (if necessary) you have a Sky/VM subscription then what is morally wrong - not legally wrong, as this thread isn't asking that - with downloading something instead of watching it on BBC1 or Sky 1 or FX etc.?

The BBC still has your money either way. Sky/VM still has your money either way.

OK, if it's something on a commercial channel then you're also avoiding watching the adverts, but... with the widespread use of PVRs now how many people watch adverts anyway? I don't. If I'm watching something on Sky 1 or another commercial channel I record the whole thing to watch later, or I pause it for a while and watch it on a delay... Either way, I FFWD the adverts.


Going back to purchasing, what if there is no option to purchase something, as is the case with TV series which have yet to reach the UK, or TV series which simply are not shown in the UK anymore (such as the aforementioned Breaking Bad).

Some do eventually get a Region 2 DVD release (Sons of Anarchy's third season was released on DVD here a couple of months ago, so hopefully we'll get season 4 and onwards too), so sure, they can and should be rented/purchased once available. But what of those which are only ever released on Region 1 DVD? Sure, you can import them, but doesn't that technically throw up other issues with copyright / licensing?

Matt, You're an adult and I assume you can distinguish between right and wrong and legal and illegal. Your attempts to self justify what you already know to be illegal activities are pointless.

Ignorance is no defence.

If you want to deprive people of legitimate income that's your call. Don't come all "what if", "...but" in an attempt to assuage blame for what you are doing. You're quite clearly a subscriber to the school of "Me first and the gimmie, gimmies".

As others have pointed out illegal downloading is breaking the law - it comes at a cost to others.

If something isn't legally available to view or is beyond someones budget then they ought to go without in the short term rather than resort to illegal activities.

Beyond someone being too selfish or self centered to consider these facts, what's not to understand?

[Gary L]

What about porn. how do you know whether that's copyright and you're depriving someone of something?

it could have been ripped from a site and made available everywhere. but you just wouldn't know otherwise.