Employment Laws etc

LSainsbury · 29-09-2010, 18:46

Hi,

Somebody I know is having some issues with their employer. There's a lot more going on behind the scenes but here's what has happened today.

Yesterday this person was genuinely ill - I won't say what for as it's irrelevant imo.

The employers current sick procedure is that the employee phones in sick before their shift starts, and speaks to their line manager to inform them they won't be in.

The day they are due to return to work they phone in and let them know - so if it's one day sickness they speak to their employer twice in the same day.

On the day they return they have a return to work "interview" which basicaly outlines why they were sick, are you better etc.

Today the employee was "informed" that if they are sick they are are to come into work and the employer will decide if they are not fit for duty.

So - imo this is a major change to the employee policy and should be rolled out to all employees across the "company".

What rights does the employer have to decide if the empolyee is not fit to carry out their duty?

**Hugh** · 29-09-2010, 19:17

Seems a bit draconian to me, and probably (imho) illegal.

Has the change of policy been communicated to the work-force, or is this a specific instance to one employee?

speedfreak · 29-09-2010, 19:24

Heres what I'd do though most wont agree as its part of the nasty compensation culture the USA has given us

When your mate is ill they should go in work, say they aren't well and if they are kept in work climb some ladders or something of equal risk, pretend to feint and hit the floor. Then sue for thousands. Might hurt but would be worth it

On a serious note they should ring someone like ACAS, though thats what Id do and I've told my boss the same thing

**Maggy J** · 29-09-2010, 19:24

And what happens if the employee sees a doctor and is declared unfit to work?Do they still have to report to the line manager?

Jon T · 29-09-2010, 19:24

Are they on a fixed term contract, permanent contract, agency worker?

speedfreak · 29-09-2010, 19:27

Quote:

Originally Posted by Maggy J

And what happens if the employee sees a doctor and is declared unfit to work?Do they still have to report to the line manager?

They shouldnt go against a doctors sick note as then they are liable, any company that did that is asking for trouble. Id guess no matter what they have to inform their manager

haydnwalker · 29-09-2010, 19:27

The procedure is a bit like the one we have in our department at work (apart from the bit about the employer deciding who is/isn't fit for work).

It isn't the employers right/prerogative to decide who is or isn't fit for duty. If that were me, I'd just phone the Doctors and get a sick note to save the hassle.

The whole point of "self-cert" is that the employee certifies themselves sick or well isn't it?

Firstly I'd speak to HR directly and see what policies they have (as its obviously not a company wide policy - otherwise there'd have been some official communication surely?)

====================
Something similar but not about sickness: When we last had the really bad snowfall, our dutys as IT techs were quite limited as we need our cars to travel to sites etc.

I made a point to my manager that I won't be travelling out to sites on that particular day because I don't think its safe enough to drive.

The reply from my manager was "I will make the call as to whether it's safe for you to drive or not"

Needless to say, My car stayed firmly in the car park as my personal safety was far more important (to me, not the company) than my work.

Ramrod · 29-09-2010, 19:42

Quote:

Originally Posted by LSainsbury

What rights does the employer have to decide if the empolyee is not fit to carry out their duty?

No rights at all afaik. I'm not aware of any way that I can demand one of my staff turns up at work for a personal inspection by me.

LSainsbury · 29-09-2010, 19:51

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hugh

Seems a bit draconian to me, and probably (imho) illegal.

Has the change of policy been communicated to the work-force, or is this a specific instance to one employee?

Specific instance to one employee as far as I know...

---------- Post added at 19:50 ---------- Previous post was at 19:48 ----------

Quote:

Originally Posted by speedfreak

On a serious note they should ring someone like ACAS, though thats what Id do and I've told my boss the same thing

Been speaking to ACAS for a while as there have been some issues recently.

The employee has just joined Unite

---------- Post added at 19:51 ---------- Previous post was at 19:50 ----------

Quote:

Originally Posted by Maggy J

And what happens if the employee sees a doctor and is declared unfit to work?Do they still have to report to the line manager?

No idea - this procedure has been pulled out of thin air.

Peter_ · 29-09-2010, 19:54

Does your friend have a history of time off for illness, do they suffer from any chronic illnesses or medical conditions that the employer is aware of as it could be classed as harassment.

LSainsbury · 29-09-2010, 19:54

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jon T

Are they on a fixed term contract, permanent contract, agency worker?

Permanent contract - same employer for 13 years - got made redundant a few weeks ago - went thorugh the redundancy consoltation (which was also full of holes and procedures not followed) but offered another position - the one month trial period starts next week. (Told you there were other issues)

Taf · 29-09-2010, 19:56

I'd go in and hope what I had was a nasty communicable disease that took most of the workforce out for ages.... but not the bosses or HR toads...

Peter_ · 29-09-2010, 19:56

Quote:

Originally Posted by LSainsbury

Permanent contract - same employer for 13 years - got made redundant a few weeks ago - went thorugh the redundancy consoltation (which was also full of holes and procedures not followed) but offered another position - the one month trial period starts next week. (Told you there were other issues)

Sounds like a probable case for constructive dismissal against the employer.

LSainsbury · 29-09-2010, 19:59

Quote:

Originally Posted by Masque

Does your friend have a history of time off for illness, do they suffer from any chronic illnesses or medical conditions that the employer is aware of as it could be classed as harassment.

Employed at the same establishment for for 14 years - been TUPE'd back and forth a few times but same "company".

The employee has has a week off due to wisdom tooth extraction and a few days here and there - no more that 4 others through the year.

For the previous years - not many to speak of.

Can you class stress as a medical condition?

Harassment / bullying - oh yeah - nail on the head there!

Peter_ · 29-09-2010, 20:02

Quote:

Originally Posted by LSainsbury

Employed at the same establishment for for 14 years - been TUPE'd back and forth a few times but same "company".

The employee has has a week off due to wisdom tooth extraction and a few days here and there - no more that 4 others through the year.

For the previous years - not many to speak of.

Can you class stress as a medical condition?

Harassment / bullying - oh yeah - nail on the head there!

They could easily get signed off with stress with all that has been going on and this last one could be the straw that broke the camels back, now I would love to see any firm wiggle out of that one especially with the 14 year history with the company.