Muslim prison 'gangs'

papa smurf · 13-03-2010, 10:22

The Muslim prison population in England and Wales has sharply increased in recent years. The BBC's Ushma Mistry hears from former inmates and prison officers who claim gangs of Muslim prisoners are an increasingly powerful force.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/8558590.stm

Speaking anonymously, a former prison officer, who worked at HMP Long Lartin, told the Donal MacIntyre programme about cases where non-Muslim prisoners were seriously assaulted and intimidated for refusing to abide by unofficial rules imposed by Muslim gangs, about eating pork or listening to Western music.

"Muslim gangs was something I was very concerned about - the situation changed where underworld gangsters who used to keep discipline and order were no longer in charge in the prison," she said.

broadbandking · 13-03-2010, 10:26

That's something serious when a prison is run by in mates not the prison officers.

No in mate should be able to impose unofficial rules, thats the issue I have other cultures wanting to live here and have our laws adapted to them. NO

nomadking · 13-03-2010, 10:41

If they were adhering that strictly to their own religion, they wouldn't be there in the first place.

martyh · 13-03-2010, 11:08

it just reinforces my view on the hypocrisy of religion and in particular the Muslim religion which increasingly seems to be a "pick and choose religion" ,by that i mean some muslims seem to pick and choose which parts of the religion apply to them

papa smurf · 13-03-2010, 11:47

Quote:

Originally Posted by martyh

it just reinforces my view on the hypocrisy of religion and in particular the Muslim religion which increasingly seems to be a "pick and choose religion" ,by that i mean some muslims seem to pick and choose which parts of the religion apply to them

isn't that why there are so many branches of Christianity.

nomadking · 13-03-2010, 12:03

But they don't claim to belong to a separate branch of Islam.

**Russ** · 13-03-2010, 12:17

If that report is correct, it still makes me wonder what it is about the Muslim faith that attracts so many violent nutters.

I'm more than willing to accept that Islam is a peaceful faith and the nutters are a minority but still, you don't hear of this sort of thing happening these days in Christianity, Hinduism, Buddhism etc

Every section of society has its crackpots but it certainly seems to be something in Islam that attracts the most of them.

**Chris** · 13-03-2010, 12:19

Quote:

Originally Posted by papa smurf

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isn't that why there are so many branches of Christianity.

Indirectly, yes - a new denomination would tend to form when a group of Christians got upset with other members of their existing denomination no longer adhering to the whole faith and beginning to 'pick and choose' the parts they wanted to live by.

Normally the process would begin within an existing denomination, with an attempt by some to call everyone back to basic Biblical principles. But if that didn't work, sooner or later they would either get kicked out (for being a bit too fundamentalist for the liking of the church leaders) or else walk out. On a grand scale, that's more or less what the European Reformation was about. The Methodist church separated out from the Church of England by similar means.

Muslims claim they don't have denominations, but that's based on a very narrow western meaning of the word. Of course there are divisions - mainly, Sunni, Shia and Sufi, although there are differing traditions even within those (radical Islamism, a la Al-Quaeda, is an offshoot of Sunni Islam. If it had branched out from Christianity in such a way we would almost certainly be calling it a cult or a sect).

As with Christianity, there are people whose cultural heritage is Muslim but who don't especially follow the faith. I'm not surprised there are gangs of Muslim heavies ruling the roost in some of our prisons. Prison discipline has always been enforced, to a greater or lesser degree, by a resident hard man. With more and more Muslims on the inside, simple statistics say that sooner or later, the resident hard man is going to be one of them.

Anyway, I thought some of you hang'em high brigade were all for prisons being nasty, uncomfortable places. Surely these muslim hard men are doing you all a favour by ensuring that's exactly what they are?

martyh · 13-03-2010, 12:35

the report is full of examples were violence and intimidation is used to enforce islam on non-believers .These inmates are supposed to be muslims ,a peacefull religion (supposed to be),in my view anybody in jail ,of any religion loses the right to practice that religion on the grounds that they are there because they have broken the rules of society and their respective religion

**Russ** · 13-03-2010, 12:37

Quote:

Originally Posted by martyh

the report is full of examples were violence and intimidation is used to enforce islam on non-believers .These inmates are supposed to be muslims ,a peacefull religion (supposed to be),in my view anybody in jail ,of any religion loses the right to practice that religion on the grounds that they are there because they have broken the rules of society and their respective religion

Way to go to ensure prisoners remain under control.

martyh · 13-03-2010, 12:40

Quote:

Originally Posted by Russ

Way to go to ensure prisoners remain under control.

and they are under control now ?

beating other inmates up to enforce a religion based on peace
forcing inmates to pray
setting rules by which the prison will be run

sure sounds like control to me

**Russ** · 13-03-2010, 12:43

Quote:

Originally Posted by martyh

and they are under control now ?

beating other inmates up to enforce a religion based on peace
forcing inmates to pray
setting rules by which the prison will be run

sure sounds like control to me

If you treat the prisoners harshly, they'll come out with a negative attitude towards society and will end up back inside.

I'm not saying jails should be holiday camps - prisoners need punishment but taking away their right to practise their faith? That's just asking for trouble. If you're happy to have a bunch of affected ex-cons around the place then fine but I certainly don't.

martyh · 13-03-2010, 12:53

Quote:

Originally Posted by Russ

If you treat the prisoners harshly, they'll come out with a negative attitude towards society and will end up back inside.

I'm not saying jails should be holiday camps - prisoners need punishment but taking away their right to practise their faith? That's just asking for trouble. If you're happy to have a bunch of affected ex-cons around the place then fine but I certainly don't.

the way i see it Russ is that it is not their faith ,they are not true to their faith simply by the virtue that they are in prison .How can someone pray to Allah and then go and beat up someone else for not praying to Allah

I wouldn't want to say you are naive because i don't think you are but if you think that these sort of people will ever have a positive attitude towards society then you are, lets just say, generous with your compassion

**Russ** · 13-03-2010, 13:09

Quote:

Originally Posted by martyh

the way i see it Russ is that it is not their faith ,they are not true to their faith simply by the virtue that they are in prison .How can someone pray to Allah and then go and beat up someone else for not praying to Allah

I'm assuming you're under the impression that if someone finds religion they then go on to live a faultless life?

Quote:

Originally Posted by martyh

I wouldn't want to say you are naive because i don't think you are but if you think that these sort of people will ever have a positive attitude towards society then you are, lets just say, generous with your compassion

Whatever attitude to life they have, banning the practise of their faith will make it 10 times worse.

martyh · 13-03-2010, 13:20

Quote:

Originally Posted by Russ

I'm assuming you're under the impression that if someone finds religion they then go on to live a faultless life?

Whatever attitude to life they have, banning the practise of their faith will make it 10 times worse.

they have no faith ,they are "pretend muslims" in my view .Being religious and claiming to be a muslim only when it suits them to intimidate others in the name of that religion tells me that they are not religious in any shape or form and deserve to have any rights to practice that religion removed untill they leave prison