Any plumbers out there?

danielf · 31-08-2009, 23:11

I've had some problems with our toilet lately.

It wasn't flushing properly, and was leaking from where the bowl outlet connects to pipe going out of the building. I got this plumber/heating whatever company in, and the first guy replaced the siphon (which I think was what needed doing) and said that he couldn't fix the leak as this required replacing the 'pan connector' and he didn't have the part. I was charged ~ £100 (inc. callout) and he was there for nearly an hour (with his mate). I asked how much the additional cost would be, and he said 'not very much'.

Next day, another bloke comes to replace the pan connector, and he quotes me £200 as he needs to dismantle the toilet to replace the pan connector. I wasn't happy about this, so I called the office, and they say it's a 2 hour job, unless he's able to do it without dismantling the toilet. He says he can't. Reluctantly, I say go ahead then. Ten minutes later he comes down saying he managed to fix/replace it without dismantling the toilet and charges me about £50. Good, I thought, but I had my doubts about this bloke, and how a 2 hour £200 job could suddenly change into a 10 minute £50 job.

Anyway: This was a couple of weeks ago, and now the toilet is leaking again from the same location. Before I call them in the morning, I'd be interested if anyone can give a realistic quote for replacing a pan connector. £200 seems a bit excessive to me, but clearly £50 bought me a bodge job...

Ben B · 31-08-2009, 23:14

You've spent £150 fixing the toilet, wouldn't it have been cheaper to buy a new toilet.

icestar2 · 31-08-2009, 23:16

Just a quick google search for pan connectors and none are really anywere near what you've been quoted. To be fair I have no idea what your toilets like but by the looks of things you shouldn't really be paying anything near that price. Also as Ben says it probably would of been better to buy a new toilet for the amount you've paid already on it.

Is it some kind of specialist toilet or something maybe ? Dont mean to pry just seems a bit steep to me having had a new toilet put in a couple months back for much cheaper myself.

danielf · 31-08-2009, 23:24

Ben & Icestar: It's labour rather than parts.

A new toilet still needs fitting. What they're telling me is that a refit is required. This seems farfetched to me. Hence this thread...

icestar2 · 31-08-2009, 23:27

Quote:

Originally Posted by danielf

Ben & Icestar: It's labour rather than parts.

A new toilet still needs fitting. What they're telling me is that a refit is required. This seems farfetched to me. Hence this thread...

Thats what I was thinking(labour). Still I cant see how its a 2 hour job. Maybe its more complicated than fitting a whole toilet is the only reason I can think of.

Ben B · 31-08-2009, 23:27

But a new toilet isn't gonna take 2 hours to fit and £200 for fixing a toilet is extremely high. Especially as I payed £600 labour for my entire bathroom to be fitted and that involved knocking a wall down to take a chunk off a bedroom

danielf · 31-08-2009, 23:31

Quote:

Originally Posted by icestar2

Thats what I was thinking(labour). Still I cant see how its a 2 hour job. Maybe its more complicated that fitting a whole toilet is all I can think of.

My thoughts exactly. So I was hoping a plumber or experienced DIY person could comment before I call this lot in the morning, and hopefully have an idea of how much labour is (or can be involved).

icestar2 · 31-08-2009, 23:38

If no one here can help you then it might be worth registering somewere like http://www.ukplumbersforums.co.uk/ and asking there.

SMG · 01-09-2009, 00:23

Changing a syphon is easy, 20 minute job. Changing a pan connector is not as easy. I presume its the one which takes the waste from the pan to the soil pipe. These connectors fit into the horizontal soil pipe, then slide over the pan connector. I have no idea how this guy changed it without moving either the pipe or the pan, its a tight fit.

Presuming your pan has a "P" trap, thats the one which exits the pan at 90 degrees, at the rear, then enters the horizontal soil pipe directly, there is now way I know of to the replace the fitting, without moving one or the other. It slides onto the pan outlet approx 3/4", & slides into the soil pipe some 4/5".

If your pan has a "P" trap, which goes to a vertical pipe, ie a 90 degree coupling, then you can change it by wrenching it about, & forcing it back, however, its bound to leak.

Is the toilet a close coupled suite, or a separate bog with separate syphon tank?

Mick Fisher · 01-09-2009, 00:54

Sounds like a rip off to me.

Syphons are not expensive, neither are pan connectors. However if the unit is a combination type then sawing through the bolts that hold it together, as they rust solid, is an arduous job made worse by the cramped situations that toilets are usually crammed into.

Regarding the leak from the pan connector, are we sure it is not a leak from the cistern above?

If not then consider this.

The waste from the flush should enter a pipe with a suitably large enough diameter at a suitably angled incline so that the discharge will quickly flow away without spillage. Thus the seal between the pan connector and the pan spigot is only intended as a occasional drip/odour seal. A noticeable leak from this joint may indicate a blockage causing the flow to be backed up or a sub standard installation such as an insufficiant inclination of the discharge pipe. I have come across examples where the original installer expected the flow to run uphill

because it made his job easier.

Just changing a pan connector will not help if there are underlying problems.

You have my sympathies. As disability prevents me from doing my own maintenancethese days I have discovered that finding someone who is not a cowboy and/or can be persuaded to start anything but a 5 minute job seems to be impossibility.

The only reliable criterion is a personal recommendation and usually the biggest rogues can be found via the Yellow Pages.

danielf · 01-09-2009, 09:36

Quote:

Originally Posted by SMG

Changing a syphon is easy, 20 minute job. Changing a pan connector is not as easy. I presume its the one which takes the waste from the pan to the soil pipe. These connectors fit into the horizontal soil pipe, then slide over the pan connector. I have no idea how this guy changed it without moving either the pipe or the pan, its a tight fit.

I doubt he actually changed it, as he was here for only 10 minutes.

Quote:

Presuming your pan has a "P" trap, thats the one which exits the pan at 90 degrees, at the rear, then enters the horizontal soil pipe directly, there is now way I know of to the replace the fitting, without moving one or the other. It slides onto the pan outlet approx 3/4", & slides into the soil pipe some 4/5".

If your pan has a "P" trap, which goes to a vertical pipe, ie a 90 degree coupling, then you can change it by wrenching it about, & forcing it back, however, its bound to leak.

Is the toilet a close coupled suite, or a separate bog with separate syphon tank?

Pics:

My bog and where it leaks.

Taf · 01-09-2009, 10:46

WOW! That's a huge gap around that pan connector! Looks like the wrong size to my (amateur) eyes...

I've swapped a couple of those connectors myself... less than half an hour each time.. no difficulties at all...

danielf · 01-09-2009, 10:57

Quote:

Originally Posted by Taf

WOW! That's a huge gap around that pan connector! Looks like the wrong size to my (amateur) eyes...

I've swapped a couple of those connectors myself... less than half an hour each time.. no difficulties at all...

That's the plastic ring that's come loose. There's a rubber seal underneath/behind it.

Incidentally, having looked through my e-mail, the plumber quoted me £120 plus VAT rather than £200, and claimed it would take 2-2.5 hours.

banjo · 01-09-2009, 13:01

I have fitted one of these and am not a plumber it took approx half an hour and I agree that it looks a strange fit, the one I did fitted inside the soil pipe and had a ribbed seal.

I would do it myself but it does pen and ink and I put a plastic bag around the soil pipe to try and stop the smell and mess.

DO NOT do this unless you are confident in what you are doing, it might help if you took a picture of the seal into B and Q or a friendly builders merchants.

SMG · 04-09-2009, 00:23

Its a close coupled suite. Even if the syphon did leak, there should be a rubber seal between the cistern & pan, preventing water escapes. 10 mins is not long enough to replace a syphon in that loo.

The coupling from the soil pipe does look too big. The ones I have fitted did at least look right, but, as said, there is a rubber seal on the inside, preventing leaks.

One way to find a weeping leak, is to wipe all the areas, then place toilet paper around the suspect area. Flush it, then check the paper.

To be honest m8, a new loo from B&Q is only about £45, & fitting is quite easy for a DIY`r.