China- Propoganda, Censorship and the "Thought Police"

Chris W · 17-08-2005, 11:15

I've just got back from a fortnight in China visiting my best mate who now lives and works in Jinan (Shandong Province). I could bore everyone with holiday stories but there is one thing that has shocked me more than everything else, and that is the lack of Freedom of Speech.

My first encounter with censorship was an attempt to access the bbc website- homepage loads up fine, but every link gives Page Cannot Be Displayed as you try to delve into the site. I thought this could just be a proxy/ temporary problem so decided to do some further digging....

Sky News, Google News (excpet Google China), CNN, Reuters, The Times, The Telegraph... all give the same results. It appears someone in China does not want people to hear the news except the way the Chinese Government want it told!

Now my next shock came when I met a student of Rick's [my best mate]. We went out for the day and during the course of the day i found out that Eve was the daughter of the Directing Editor of the local communicist propoganda newspaper- rather a powerful position in the city. I later discovered that the lady in question can have people killed and also that while we had been out she had sent someone to follow us to check that we were treating her daughter well. (nothing like a protective parent!) I dread to think what would have happened if we had done something that her mother didn't like....

The final most shocking discovery was made when i was teaching English to University students. We were discussing various issues that normally start heated threads here on CF, and i was suprised to learn that none of the students had an opinion about anything...

The Chinese High School education does not allow students to think... testing is of facts that are given to them and that is it... no discussion, analysis, evaluation, nothing. We discussed the issue of life after death as i was interested to find out if Chinese view's generally different from English views. But not one of the students had their own opinion, all i heard was "I have been taught that xxx happens when you die."
Me: "So what do you think about what happens?"
Student: "I believe what i have been told."
Me: "Do you have doubts about what you have been told?"
Student: "I should not doubt my teacher because he has more experience than me."

Shocked!

It will be interesting to see what happens when the Olympics go to Beijing in 2008, as it won't be possible for the Government to censor the world media, so people outside China may start forming different opinions about the Chinese way of life...

Angua · 17-08-2005, 11:49

Given the size of the population and the (generally agreed) failure of communism, it is probably the only reason the country still functions (very scary mind control). As you say it will be interesting to see what 2008 brings, I have a nasty suspicion that Beijing will be isolated from the rest of the country during the olympics.

17-08-2005, 12:52

China will never alter it's ways as long as there is a sun in the sky, the country is run with a iron fist and it will come down heavy on anyone who speaks out against the leaders, what makes it worse is we buy stuff from this country and support this axis of evil.

marky · 17-08-2005, 13:18

we all know what happened when people did disagree with the government

http://hoover.archives.gov/exhibits/...umanRights.htm

Ramrod · 17-08-2005, 13:34

Given that China is still a totalitarian communist state, I'm surprised that you are shocked..............
__________________

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chris W

The final most shocking discovery was made when i was teaching English to University students. We were discussing various issues that normally start heated threads here on CF, and i was suprised to learn that none of the students had an opinion about anything...

They have opinions but openly telling them to you may be bad for their (and their familys) health.
It's a sign of how far China has come that you were actually able to speak to them without a state security chaperone with you....

Chris W · 17-08-2005, 18:00

I was only shocked because it only really hit home when you experience it for yourself.

Next time I teach an English class I will remember not to try and have a debate!!

Another shocker that I forgot to mention is that Homosexuality is illegal- if you are caught "preaching it" then you are arrested. sentence = death.

quadplay · 17-08-2005, 18:49

Good thing you left your pink flowery handbag and dangly earrings at home then!

Graham · 17-08-2005, 19:28

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chris W

I've just got back from a fortnight in China

Let's hear it for a country that comes down hard on criminals and doesn't bother about those peksy "Human Rights".

With all that it must be one of the best places in the world to live...!!!

(Do I *really* need to point out that this is irony...???)

Ramrod · 17-08-2005, 19:35

We know it's irony graham.......but you are rather taking things to extremes there.....

Flubflow · 17-08-2005, 19:40

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ramrod

Given that China is still a totalitarian communist state, I'm surprised that you are shocked..............
__________________

They have opinions but openly telling them to you may be bad for their (and their familys) health.
It's a sign of how far China has come that you were actually able to speak to them without a state security chaperone with you....

I am always surprised that we seemed to reward their past behavior with more and more trade. I don't want to see their largely innocent population in poverty but ever since the 1989 Tiananmen Square protests I think the free thinking world should have put more sanctions on them until they actually understood that they there is a certain level of behaviour that is just not right not matter what your political ideology. Instead we just joined the cue right along with all the other countries for lucrative contracts as soon as that whole episode faded from people's memories. Perhaps the thinking is that when more of the general public in China get richer then they will put up with less and less state control/censorship. That doesn't seem to be happening and the trouble is that, as many have learned in the past, when great unrest is sensed within the populace then nothing brings it all together better than a nice war (cue Taiwan - and anyone else that gets dragged into it).
There ya' go. China in a nutshell

. Of course I know it is not as simple as all that.

Chris W · 17-08-2005, 20:15

Quote:

Originally Posted by Graham

Let's hear it for a country that comes down hard on criminals and doesn't bother about those peksy "Human Rights".

With all that it must be one of the best places in the world to live...!!!

Well my best mate loves it... originally he was going to only stay for a year, then 5 years, now he reckons he may never come back. So it can't be such a bad place to live...

I don't see a problem with coming down hard on criminals, and from what i have seen, the western media exagerates the mal treatment of people as well as the chinese media covers it up...

Ramrod · 17-08-2005, 20:29

Quote:

Originally Posted by Flubflow

I am always surprised that we seemed to reward their past behavior with more and more trade.

Thats exactly what will eventually bring down the communist regime.

danielf · 17-08-2005, 20:33

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ramrod

Thats exactly what will eventually bring down the communist regime.

Oddly enough, that is what the stance that many people in Asia take when it comes to human rights. Let's focus on developing the country first. Human rights are a luxury that will come with the other luxuries wealth brings.

Ramrod · 17-08-2005, 20:55

Quote:

Originally Posted by danielf

Oddly enough, that is what the stance that many people in Asia take when it comes to human rights. Let's focus on developing the country first. Human rights are a luxury that will come with the other luxuries wealth brings.

Not what I meant. I wasn't on about human rights, but about overthrowing Communism.

BBKing · 17-08-2005, 21:09

Quote:

this axis of evil

How can one country be an axis? Sorry, just musing there for a moment. Fulcrum of evil, possibly.

Anyway. China. Never been a democracy, or anything close to one really - scene of the bloodiest civil war* in history (and, shockingly, the second bloodiest war of any type in history, beating WW1 into *third* place), great cultural and scientific history and described by a friend of mine who spent several weeks there a few years ago as the Land of the Rising Phlegm.

What it isn't, any more, is remotely communist in deed and action - they're doing very nicely out of capitalism, which of course doesn't require democracy in order to function. So a totalitarian capitalist state, then, and one which is shortly going to have a large amount of control over all our lives (the balance of payments debt is getting rather scary, as are the price rises in steel and oil as a result of the explosion of the Chinese economy).

Thanks for the post, Chris. Found it very interesting.

[To pour more oil on troubled flames, Graham's right, there are plenty of countries with strong Daily Mail friendly social policies and none of them are remotely desirable as places to live.]

*http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Taiping_Rebellion - I recommend Flashman and the Dragon as a primer on it. It shows what happens when a lot of people are brainwashed by a loony who's inspired by a perverted form of a major monotheistic religion...oh, hang on a minute...