"Probationary" job rights?

punky · 04-03-2009, 16:22

I've been forwarded a job spec by an agent. I really only want to go to permanant positions atm, not fixed term contracts. However the spec says:

Quote:

"This is temporary for 6 months but could lead to permanent for the right applicant."

Which I think is a chancer and doesn't give me any security at all. I told the agent i'll think about it and he's been on the phone saying its a permanant position but they want a 6 month period to assess me under a probation and won't be a problem.

Now under this probationary period can they make me relinquish any rights with regard to dismissal? For example can they dismiss you (don't think you're good enough, whatever reason) under a probationary period on a permanant contract that they couldn't outside of the probationary period of the contract?

I think the agent is BSing me because all he's bothered about is his commission but I really want to secure my prospects rather than put it to chance.

Many thanks in advance.

**Chris** · 04-03-2009, 16:39

AFAIK you have very few rights one way or the other, certainly with regards to to dismissal. However offering you a fixed contract has additional benefits to the employer such as the ability to exclude you from any benefits you might otherwise be entitled to (e.g. staff discount, if one is applicable to that business). I worked for a company for 18 months recently, on three consecutive fixed contracts, which excluded me from the pension scheme and bonus scheme amongst other things - and the automatic end-of-year pay rise. I had to renegotiate my salary at the end of the second contract.

It may also be useful to your would-be line manager; if the company is trying to keep head-count down, fixed-term employees can be hidden as project costs rather than normal HR costs.

LondonRoad · 04-03-2009, 16:43

You don't have all your rights until you've been employed for 12 months so it doesn't matter whether they call you probationary for 6 months of it. They could still sack you in month 7 or 8 (unless they're sacking your for racist, sexist, etc reasons) for any reason they want.

The 6 month clause is quite standard. If you've got confidence in yourself and you fancy the job go for it. I took up my present post unaware that the 6 month probationary period was in the contract. I was a bit concerned at the time but I'm still here - 11 years on.

Good luck whatever you decide.

**Rob** · 04-03-2009, 16:44

Most permanent jobs will have an initial probation period. It works both ways the employer can easily turn round ans say your face doesn't fit, but equally the employee can up sticks. It mainly allows a lot of the normal notice giving rules to be shortened to say a week instead of a month. Most employers will want to see that a new member of staff is capable of the job skills they need and not just accept the word of a CV or interview.

Paul · 04-03-2009, 17:45

Had the same issue on a placement I got offered, was told it was permanent but the company stated otherwise and stood by their statement. As above you could try it and see how it goes, the job stability issue is going to be there for the first 12 months or so anyway.

demented · 04-03-2009, 17:59

It means whatever they want it to mean. They can dismiss you. I'd go with your gut instinct as to what feeling you get they're giving off about it. If you don't think it's permanent and smell a rat, it probably isn't. If you're happy with the job and what they've said then go for it.

punky · 05-03-2009, 00:06

Cheers for the help everyone. I'll mull it over.

05-03-2009, 00:31

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chris

AFAIK you have very few rights one way or the other, certainly with regards to to dismissal. However offering you a fixed contract has additional benefits to the employer such as the ability to exclude you from any benefits you might otherwise be entitled to (e.g. staff discount, if one is applicable to that business). I worked for a company for 18 months recently, on three consecutive fixed contracts, which excluded me from the pension scheme and bonus scheme amongst other things - and the automatic end-of-year pay rise. I had to renegotiate my salary at the end of the second contract.

It may also be useful to your would-be line manager; if the company is trying to keep head-count down, fixed-term employees can be hidden as project costs rather than normal HR costs.

I think this is a very relevant reply, mainly because of how it highlights the potential difference between a 'rolling' fixed term contract & an open contract with a probationary period.

My current job had a contractual 6 month 'probation' period, but was not fixed term, so after completing the 6 months I am now eligible for the benefits such as pension scheme, health insurance & bonus.

Having said that, there is nothing to stop anyone continuing to apply for new jobs, no matter what their contractual status - and it is, sometimes, easier to find work when you are already working.....

punky · 05-03-2009, 01:17

Maybe i'm just a born cynic, but I suspect the company is trying to get contract work without paying contract rates. Contracts can be double or more because contract workers can months between jobs. If it is a simple probationary period to a permanant work position then why not advertise as such? I think its a bit suspect the agent turns around and says "Oh it really is a permanant position, they just want a probationary period which is standard nowadays. You can settle it at the interview". Just the whole approach to it makes me feel that if I insist on signing a permanant contract, they'll dig up any old excuse to offload me at the end of my "probationary" period. Then not only will I be jobless in what could be a much worse market, but then I have also got a sacking on my CV to contend with. If I was jobless I could just go for it, but I don't want to walk out of a permanant job into a 6 month one in this market and then be left up ***** creek.

**Maggy J** · 05-03-2009, 07:13

Quote:

Originally Posted by punky

Maybe i'm just a born cynic, but I suspect the company is trying to get contract work without paying contract rates. Contracts can be double or more because contract workers can months between jobs. If it is a simple probationary period to a permanant work position then why not advertise as such? I think its a bit suspect the agent turns around and says "Oh it really is a permanant position, they just want a probationary period which is standard nowadays. You can settle it at the interview". Just the whole approach to it makes me feel that if I insist on signing a permanant contract, they'll dig up any old excuse to offload me at the end of my "probationary" period. Then not only will I be jobless in what could be a much worse market, but then I have also got a sacking on my CV to contend with. If I was jobless I could just go for it, but I don't want to walk out of a permanant job into a 6 month one in this market and then be left up ***** creek.

Then just tell them that..make it part of the bargaining dialogue..after all you have a job so you are in a strong position already and they seem to be chasing you.See how far you can push the agent.

Angua · 05-03-2009, 09:19

This is actually fairly commonplace these days with companies of all sizes. 5 people alone in our department have gone from temporary to permanent.

etccarmageddon · 05-03-2009, 12:15

yeah I wouldn't go for that job punky if you are already in a job. you'd be screwed if they dumped you after 6 months.