Employment contract/redundancy/unfair dismissal question

Charlie_Bubble · 19-01-2009, 12:24

I work for a Limited UK company owned by a large multinational company. Due to the current financial climate they are closing down our UK office and moving the UK company into the Main PLC building. Now we are in a consultation period and I have been told that as my work journey is now 2 miles shorter I have no option but to work at the new location. I would have no problem with that if it were not for the fact that they have also decided that the UK IT department (Only the IT dept, all other depts will still be UK) will now no longer work for the UK company, but the owning PLC company.

The desktop support team have already moved across to the PLC and have had to sign a new contract. They were given no option but to sign. They were told that if they didn't sign, they had no job.

I work in the Development team. Ok, it's called the development team, but we also do support for our UK systems. We are going to move under the PLC Development manager. It's unclear yet as to whether we will still be doing support, or will be doing purely development work. We have been told that we will not change contract for 3 to 6 months. The manager we are moving to work under has a 'reputation'. Nobody I know eithe rhere or at the PLc has a good word to say about him. A couple of people have quit on the spot due to his attitude and he has had contractors sacked on the spot for not working outside their contracted hours. He is known to expect people to work extra hours for no extra benefit.

We are expected to continue on the our existing pay and conditions, but under the PLC. The issue I have is that we will now no longer be allowed to work from home and I know for a fact that the others PLC developers are on much better terms and conditions, ie higher grades, which means better company cars and at least Â£10k more a year. I do not feel happy about moving across her and having to work in the office every day and be expected to work longer than my contracted hours for less money and perks than those sat next to me doing the same job.

If they try to make me change contract and give me no option, either sign or leave, am I being made redundant or am I being unfairly dismissed?

foreverwar · 19-01-2009, 12:35

You need to talk to CAB or a Union Rep, if you are in one.

Also, may I recommend, in this current economic climate, that any job (mostly) is better than none.

I would wait and see what actually happens, rather than try to plan on rumour and speculation.

You may find this link useful, and this one.

"If you don't agree, your employer is not allowed to just bring in a change. However, they can terminate your contract (by giving notice) and offer you a new one including the revised terms - effectively sacking you and taking you back on. Your employer would be expected to follow a statutory minimum dismissal procedure...

..If you accept the new contract (or carry on working after the end of the notice period) the new terms will apply to you. You'll have continuity of employment.
If you don't accept the new contract - or if you've accepted the new one but feel there was no good reason for ending the old one - you have the right to make an unfair dismissal claim provided you've at least one year's continuous service with your employer. You may also be able to claim redundancy if you have at least two years service.
If there is a sound business reason for the change, and your employer has properly consulted you and looked into any alternatives, you could find it difficult to win your claim."

There's this info from the ACAS site
"Yes. If, after negotiation, agreement on a variation of contract has proved to be impossible, an employer can - having followed the statutory dispute resolution procedures, where they apply, and observed any relevant procedural agreements - terminate the original contract, with proper notice, and offer a new contract to the employee, including the revised terms. There will be no breach of contract as a result of taking such action. If the employee accepts the new contract, continuity is preserved.

Proper notice will be as specified (or implied) in the employee's contract, or the minimum statutory notice period, whichever is the longer.
Under the law the termination will be regarded as a dismissal and it will be open to all eligible employees to claim unfair dismissal before an employment tribunal - whether they refuse to accept the new contract and leave, or are dismissed under the old contract and re-engaged.

From 1 October 2004, a new 3 step procedure for resolving disputes in the work place came into force. Employment tribunals can increase or reduce the compensation by between 10-50% if employers or employees have not fully complied with the statutory procedures. The employer must:

Step 1) Write to the employee to explain the reasons why dismissal is being considered, the time and place for a meeting to discuss the issues, and the fact that the employee has the right to be accompanied,

Step 2) Hold a face to face meeting to discuss the problem. After the meeting the employer must inform the employee of the decision, and of their right to an appeal

Step 3) Hold an appeal meeting, if required."

Ooops, 10,000th post.

LondonRoad · 19-01-2009, 12:37

Effectively you are being made redundant and offered another post. Probably not what you want to hear but you would have a very difficult job to prove that you have been unfairly dismissed.

Basic position on employment law contract changes:

Adverse (to the employee) changes in existing terms of employment are usually made in one of three ways:-

* by agreement with the employee(s), possibly with a cash "sweetener";
* by unilateral variation of contract terms (or of works rules applied by the contracts); or
* by giving required notice to terminate existing contracts and offering new contracts on new terms.

Choices open to an employee are:-

* go along with the employer's proposals;
* reject them and quit, perhaps claiming constructive dismissal , or
* reject them but continue to work on a without prejudice basis (ie "under protest") on the new terms, reserving all rights, negotiating if possible and ultimately bringing court or Tribunal proceedings if agreement cannot be reached.

Charlie_Bubble · 20-01-2009, 09:54

Thanks for the replies. I am going to see what develops. Apparently our new manager is coming over some time this week. Maybe he has some more info about how things are going to progress.

shredder · 20-01-2009, 11:35

I work in an international law firm which specialises in Employment Law, at the moment our Employment team are offering free 30 minute consultations either from our offices or via telephone.

I'll PM you the details now.

K

lauzjp · 20-01-2009, 13:05

Quote:

Originally Posted by foreverwar

Also, may I recommend, in this current economic climate, that any job (mostly) is better than none.

AndyCambs · 21-01-2009, 15:36

Just very quickly - any redundancies where there are a substantial number of people must be carried out with consultation - either unions or nominated people where unions are not around.

If you are moving to another company - then TUPE (Transfer of undertakings and Protection of Employment) regulations come into force which means that you essentially can't have you contract or working conditions changed. Again there should be a full consultation process with this.

As always - you need to speak with legal advice - probably your best route is CAB.

Chappaquiddic · 25-02-2009, 09:18

Hello there, I have just been reading this thread with interest as a friend of mine has been given notice to leave. But she has been told that after two weeks she will be reemployed under the same terms and conditions. Apparently they do not want him to pass the year mark in his contract. I don't understand why they are doing this as there is nothing in his contract to say he gets any more benefits or anything. I don't suppose anyone has any idea what they may be up to? Or any advice?

Raistlin · 25-02-2009, 09:22

I'm guessing that the contract confers better rights upon your friend once they get past the 12 month point, there are probably also legal requirements/benefits with regards to time off etc after the 12 months are up.

Is your friend male or female?

Chappaquiddic · 25-02-2009, 09:31

Yeah that's what I thought but he checked the contract and there's nothing in there.
Oh and it's a he!

Aragorn · 25-02-2009, 09:38

Is he in a permanent job or on a contract?
IIRC, contractors automatically get better rights if they are there at the same place for over a year. Assuming your friend is in the UK?

Raistlin · 25-02-2009, 09:39

The reason I asked:

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chappaquiddic

[...]s a friend of mine has been given notice to leave. But she has been told that after two weeks she will be reemployed

[...]

they do not want him to pass the year mark in his contract.

[...]

there is nothing in his contract to say he gets any more benefits

Anyway .....

Google suggests that the qualifying period (ie. the amount of time you must have been in a job) for you to be able to envoke an employment tribunal is 12 months. That might have something to do with this.....maybe.....

Female employees get extra maternity leave after 1 year by the looks of it.

There may be more, but I'm not an employment law specialist by any stretch of the imagination - the thing to remember though is that the employer wouldn't be doing this unless it benefited them more than it benefits your friend.

Aragorn · 25-02-2009, 09:46

Have a look at this page.
Basically, several employment 'rights' kick in after being employed for a year.
I would say the employer is being somewhat dodgy and depending on how willing to upset the applcart your friend is, it may be worth consulting the CAB about whether this is above board.

Chappaquiddic · 25-02-2009, 09:52

Thanks for that - I was thinking it was dodgy too. My friend is a male and he is in the UK. Because if they want him to work there why not keep him on, and if they don't want him to work there then why not just terminate his contract....

---------- Post added at 09:52 ---------- Previous post was at 09:50 ----------

oh and he is in a permanent job rather than contracted for a certain time.

foreverwar · 25-02-2009, 09:54

There has to be a break between contracts (not sure of the time, but it may be 4 weeks), otherwise it is counted as continuous employment (well, it is at our place).