Leak!!!

LSainsbury · 07-08-2008, 08:32

Morning,

We have had another leak from the same pipe joint in the ceiling in our hall...

The joint is one of these:

It's the third time it would have been replaced due to leaks - is it possible that the pipe may be damaged some how that's causing it to leak??

The pipe work looks perfectly good (It's a new build house BTW).

Been in six months and it's our 4th leak!

Cheers

Lee

**Rob** · 07-08-2008, 09:01

Has allowance been made in the pipe lenght for expansion / contraction. Plastic pipes change length a lot when they warm / cool and that could be straining the joint, especially if the pipe isn't well supported. How secure is the joint, in other words is the pipe lenght sufficient for the bend compression joint to get a full grip. If the pipe end itself is scratched, or otherwise marked a good seal of the joint could be an issue.

Put it this way, if this has now failed 4 times, something other than the joint needs to be worked on.

LSainsbury · 07-08-2008, 09:19

It looks like the pipe's length is ok - enough for the joint to seal around both ends. The pipe is not supported at the joint though, but it does run through some joists either end which do give it support.

Actually - this is the second failure in the same joint - but we have had two other in other locations.

I have some photos of the offending joint - I'll resize them and post them later - they are at home!

Osem · 07-08-2008, 09:22

Is the pipework copper or plastic? Are both ends of the joint leaking? If not then it would appear that the pipe at the leaky end may be slightly damaged or deformed in which case it'll need to be cut off and a new length added either from the nearest adjacent joint or by creating a new straight joint a short distance from the elbow. Apparently a common cause of leaks from these joints is shoddy pipe cutting - use of a dedicated pipe cutter is strongly recommended for this reason.

LSainsbury · 07-08-2008, 09:53

Quote:

Originally Posted by Osem

Is the pipework copper or plastic? Are both ends of the joint leaking? If not then it would appear that the pipe at the leaky end may be slightly damaged or deformed in which case it'll need to be cut off and a new length added either from the nearest adjacent joint or by creating a new straight joint a short distance from the elbow. Apparently a common cause of leaks from these joints is shoddy pipe cutting - use of a dedicated pipe cutter is strongly recommended for this reason.

It's plastic pipework...

Just the one end is leaking...

I think you're right about a dodgy cut - hence it not sealing correctly.

When the plumber comes again tonight I'll have a look at the end of the pipe to see if is a nice clean cut all the way round, or if it's been hacked about.

Wouldn't introducing more joints cause more possible fail-points?

Osem · 07-08-2008, 10:02

Quote:

Originally Posted by LSainsbury

It's plastic pipework...

Just the one end is leaking...

I think you're right about a dodgy cut - hence it not sealing correctly.

When the plumber comes again tonight I'll have a look at the end of the pipe to see if is a nice clean cut all the way round, or if it's been hacked about.

Wouldn't introducing more joints cause more possible fail-points?

Yes and if you're not paying for the work then I'd suggest the entire length of pipe is replaced for that reason. Of course doing that could involve a much longer job depending on the length of the pipe, layout etc. If you are paying you have to weigh up the pros and cons of both options but if the pipe ends are properly cut there should be no more leaks so adding one more joint to the system shouldn't pose a huge risk. In any event, make sure the plumber users a proper pipe cutter to do the job.

altis · 07-08-2008, 10:05

I've used loads of plastic pipe and joints like this all over the house. None of the ones I've installed have leaked but some that the builder has done have!

My trick:

Make sure you use a sharp proper cutter for the pipe. This will make sure you don't get any burrs.

Fit inserts inside the end. These support the inside of the pipe. I use stainless inserts - the plastic ones restrict the pipe a bit.

Mark the pipe so you know when it's fully seated in the coupling.

Use a dash of silicone lubricant around the pipe before you push it in. This will let it slide more easily and will stop you damaging the O-ring.

Push the two together firmly and straight and make sure you go all the way up to the line you've marked on the pipe.

I'm pretty sure there's some more tips here:
http://www.polypipe.com/

LSainsbury · 07-08-2008, 19:25

The plumber has been and has cut the end of the pipe away (about 1" from each pipe) but the worry now is that will there be enough play on the pipes - if not they might pull out at sometime...

Anyway - here's a photo of the offending item:

LSainsbury · 07-08-2008, 19:27

And another - actually - how long would it have had to be leaking to cause this? I know it's a loaded question - depends on how fast it was leaking I know!

Bulky · 07-08-2008, 20:10

how long has this plumbing been done, would say it has been leaking from the start , have you had the pipe out of the fitting ? , i have also used a lot of plastic fittings on both copper and plastic pipe, the cut on plastic must be done using the proper plastic pipe cutter otherwise when you slide the pipe in it ruins the rubber seals (same applies to fitting plastic fittings to copper) , i would remove the fitting , buy a new fitting (would recommend speedfit) and a plastic pipe slice (not too expensive and definately cheaper than a plumber) re-slice the end of both pipes feeding into the elbow and then put the new elbow on the pipes (also using either the metal or plasitic inserts as previously mentioned) using silicone to ease the joint is fine , just make sure it is a neutral cure silicone otherwise is will rot the rubber 'O' ring in the joint. speedfit fittings require you to push the pipe into the fitting as far as possible and then twist to engage the teeth to stop the pipe slipping. . . hope this helps

if a proper cutter was not used on the pipes you could be in for a lot more leaks i'm afraid , i have done lots of plastic pipe work and have never had a problem.
sorry , just to answer your question , as long as the pipes are engaged properly in the joint do not worry about the pipe pulling out

LSainsbury · 07-08-2008, 20:26

Thank Bulkylad for th info.

The house is a new build - been in since Feb but been built / finished since December 2007.

We've had that joint leak before - the hole was fixed up and nothing more thought of it - until this Wednesday!

BTW - we are covered under the builders warranty so won't cost us anything.

Bulky · 07-08-2008, 20:30

These things do happen with new builds , all it needs is for the pipe not to be seated properly or the pipe end to have a burr and destroy the 'o' ring inside the elbow , if it leaks again make sure the joint is changed (if it hasn't been already).

Osem · 07-08-2008, 22:05

Quote:

Originally Posted by LSainsbury

Thank Bulkylad for th info.

The house is a new build - been in since Feb but been built / finished since December 2007.

We've had that joint leak before - the hole was fixed up and nothing more thought of it - until this Wednesday!

BTW - we are covered under the builders warranty so won't cost us anything.

Keep a close eye on it and if it leaks again insist they renew that section of pipe to the correct length.