Can a police caution be overturned?

Xaccers · 12-01-2008, 01:54

Say for instance someone was thumped and so thumped back, the attacker called the police, and it resulted in both getting a caution, is there any way that the person who was attacked could appeal the caution?

Cerberus · 12-01-2008, 03:15

Not to my knowledge. A cuation is just basically a slap on the wrist.

Alien · 12-01-2008, 03:18

Quote:

Originally Posted by Xaccers

Say for instance someone was thumped and so thumped back, the attacker called the police, and it resulted in both getting a caution, is there any way that the person who was attacked could appeal the caution?

What happened, did you tell a paintballer he looked like a plumber?

bopdude · 12-01-2008, 03:31

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cerberus

Not to my knowledge. A cuation is just basically a slap on the wrist.

That's what I would have thought, nothing legally binding, just a warning ??

**Rob** · 12-01-2008, 03:33

It is a warning, but it is an official record. Ultimately the recipient has the choice of whether to accept it or not. If accepted, normally that would be the end of the matter, albeit that a record exists. If they refuse to accept the caution that's when the police have to decide if there is evidence to charge, and the CPS decide if it would go to court.

Xaccers · 12-01-2008, 07:13

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rob

It is a warning, but it is an official record. Ultimately the recipient has the choice of whether to accept it or not. If accepted, normally that would be the end of the matter, albeit that a record exists. If they refuse to accept the caution that's when the police have to decide if there is evidence to charge, and the CPS decide if it would go to court.

Exactly.
Picture the situation as a wife with an abusive husband, who after being punched in the head, slapped the husband and then he phoned the police.
They both got cautioned

Alien · 12-01-2008, 07:56

Quote:

Originally Posted by Xaccers

Exactly.
Picture the situation as a wife with an abusive husband, who after being punched in the head, slapped the husband and then he phoned the police.
They both got cautioned

I apologise for my attempt at frivolity under the circumstances.

Obviously I don't know the full details, or the couple in question. If it's purely as you say, then I do think the wife being cautioned was out of order. However, things aren't always that simple.

For example: I used to live a few doors away from a woman & her boyfriend [I'm not sure whether he actually lived there or not]. Anyway, what would frequently happen is they'd have a row [often fuelled by alcohol], and the police would end up being called, either by her or 1 of the neighbours. The thing is, although she'd accused him of violence on more than 1 occasion, there were times when they'd show up only to have things thrown at them from the window by her, & have her shouting abuse at them.

Xaccers · 12-01-2008, 14:03

Quote:

Originally Posted by Alien

However, things aren't always that simple.

You're right, in this case, rather than the woman being the abused party in the "relationship", it's the man who's put up with regular drink induced verbal and emotional, and sometimes physical abuse from the woman.

Personally, I can't see how someone defending themselves with a slap should get cautioned for "beating her"

Saaf_laandon_mo · 12-01-2008, 14:07

Quote:

Originally Posted by Xaccers

Personally, I can't see how someone defending themselves with a slap should get cautioned for "beating her"

maybe the copper issued the caution thinking that it might stop this guy ever going further in the future .Im not saying he will, but that the copper might have thought this as a suitable way to keep him in check.

i dont think a copper would not issue a caution to a guy who admits hitting a woman (assuming the guy said that he did, to the copper)

Xaccers · 12-01-2008, 14:11

Quote:

Originally Posted by Saaf_laandon_mo

maybe the copper issued the caution thinking that it might stop this guy ever going further in the future .Im not saying he will, but that the copper might have thought this as a suitable way to keep him in check.

i dont think a copper would not issue a caution to a guy who admits hitting a woman (assuming the guy said that he did, to the copper)

The police were told that due to the woman attacking the guy (remember the guy was punched in his right ear, the woman was slapped by him to get her to back off as she's been violent before) the relationship was over.

So if a guy is in an abusive relationship, similar to a woman in one, he should just take it, while women are allowed to defend themselves, even to the extent of stabbing their abusive partners and (imho rightly in those cases that I've know about) being aquited of any wrong doing?

**Derek** · 12-01-2008, 14:28

Quote:

Originally Posted by Xaccers

Personally, I can't see how someone defending themselves with a slap should get cautioned for "beating her"

Whilst the Policing situation in England and Wales is slightly different to Scotland there could be a couple of reasons for this.

Administrative detections - A perfect example of why targets and figures are a bad idea for Policing.
2 sides to every story - He says one thing, she says another. Women don't have a monopoly on being victims of domestic violence.
Covering of rears by the cops - Especially in the current climate of blame for anything that happens. If the wife plunged a knife into the back of the man the next time the Police could get a doing for not dealing with her 'violence' before.

Anyway in answer to the first question I don't thnk there is any way to remove or overturn the caution. The options given (AFAIK) are to accept it and the relevant record or not accept it and let the courts decide your guilt or otherwise.

WHISTLED · 12-01-2008, 15:11

Was this a caustion on the scene or were they arrested and given a formal caution at the station - 2 very different things.

Quote:

Anyway in answer to the first question I don't thnk there is any way to remove or overturn the caution. The options given (AFAIK) are to accept it and the relevant record or not accept it and let the courts decide your guilt or otherwise.

If its a formal caution you are spot on, the police give you the option of accepting a formal caution which is signed by you and recorded or if you refuse you will receive a summons.

There is no right of appeal and it cannot be overturned, by accepting the caution you are accepting responsibility and therefore guilt

AndyCambs · 12-01-2008, 16:39

If it was a formal caution, then I think it can't be overturned as part of the conditions of accepting a caution is that you admit the offence. If you admitted it, you can't change your mind.

Mr Angry · 12-01-2008, 19:29

Quote:

Originally Posted by Xaccers

Say for instance someone was thumped and so thumped back, the attacker called the police, and it resulted in both getting a caution, is there any way that the person who was attacked could appeal the caution?

Unfortunately in this scenario it could be argued that both people were victims of an attack.

Was a full verbal caution issued?

SMHarman · 12-01-2008, 19:39

BTW did you know any form of police caution or police record comes under that wonderful line 'moral turpitude' on the US Visa Waiver form. So if you have a police caution for a slap and answer the form honestly you will have dificulties visiting the US. Just another reason why if it is felt unjustified that it can be worth fighting such things.

Closer to home, you often have to answer similar questions on job applications in the future.