Happy Agincourt Day!

[Anonymouse]

592 years to the day since our boys showed the French what they were made of - they went, they saw, they kicked serious derrière Française.

"For if these men do not die well...it'll be a black matter for the king who led them to it." - Henry V

He needn't have worried. A combination of excellent tactics, superb and incredibly rapid shooting (apparently one million arrows were shot in a single day! ), rigid discipline in the English ranks and incredible luck in the form of heavy rainfall the night before secured the day - and, for a while, France - for England. Given the numbers - about 5,000 of our lads, over 30,000 French knights (though these numbers are somewhat uncertain, the English were definitely badly outnumbered) - it should have been a slaughter.

Well, in fact it was...only it was our side doing the slaughtering.

You'd think the French would have learned from Crècy and Poitiers, wouldn't you? But no, they were still sending knights in full armour against longbowmen. But even at 300 yards, a clothyard arrow tipped with a 4-inch bodkin loosed from a longbow with a draw weight of over 100 pounds will, if it hits head-on, pass through armour as if it wasn't there. At 200 yards or less, you might as well not bother with the armour.

Our casualties that day were in three figures. French casualties were in five. Nearly half of their army was taken prisoner and a sizable fraction of the French nobility was left dead on the field.

All this despite the fact that our lads were a) knackered because they'd already fought a number of engagements since arriving in France and were in no mood for this one, and b) suffering from dysentery and therefore definitely not in any mood for fighting.

It's always been a puzzle to me, though, why the French allowed Henry's army to occupy the high ground - that always affords a tactical advantage (as Darth Vader found out on Mustafar ). In this case, the French knights were marching uphill, and up a muddy slope at that, in full armour. Even the relatively few who actually got as far as the English lines would surely be too tired to fight...and the ones that didn't were mown down by the virtually constant rain of arrows. Without a doubt, it was the finest hour of English archery.

A shame Gordon Brown didn't remember his history when he sold out the UK to Brussels.

And the French have hated us ever since and even with the fact they were occupied by the Nazis and freed by the Allies they still bare a grudge to this day.Lets face it the French are more ooolala than fighters on the whole (the resistance withstanding these were awesome people)

[TheDaddy]

Originally Posted by zinglebarb

And the French have hated us ever since and even with the fact they were occupied by the Nazis and freed by the Allies they still bare a grudge to this day.Lets face it the French are more ooolala than fighters on the whole

That's hardly fair, look at their casualties figures from WWI, then of course their was Napoleons antics. That said I agree with you they don't like us, that is why I think today, Trafalgar day and the anniversary of when Joan of Arc got burnt should become national holidays, see how they like that

I know nothing about the casualties from WWI im going more on recent history

[TheNorm]

Originally Posted by zinglebarb

... they were occupied by the Nazis and freed by the Allies ...

Britain supported the Free French before liberation. Charles de Gaulle was given refuge in London for five years during the war, and was even allowed to make a speech on the BBC regarding his Free French movement. The French resistance movement was also helped by the British government in the form of information and equipment.

[Knobbly]

Originally Posted by TheNorm

The French resistance movement was also helped by the British government in the form of information and equipment.

Plus 2 Airmen and a tubby French cafe owner.

[Tightscot]

and that copper with the outrageous french accent

[Maggy J]

And then in revenge William the Conquerer came and whipped us really good....

[Rob]

Originally Posted by Incognitas

And then in revenge William the Conquerer came and whipped us really good....

Surely the date line is a tad mixed up here. Agincourt could be regarded as our Revenge for Hastings

[Chris]

Originally Posted by Rob

Surely the date line is a tad mixed up here. Agincourt could be regarded as our Revenge for Hastings

<nerd>

Yes, except that William was Duke of Normandy, not King of France. The King of France at the time was Philip I.

</nerd>

[Rob]

ooh, free history lessons

[Graham M]

Had enough of them at school, that's why I didn't do it for GCSE !

[Maggy J]

And the Normans had been invaded by Vikings originally!!

And yes I got my history mixed up...But to remind everyone that we have been at the throats of our European cousins for centuries.Let's not remember the wars and conflicts with them except as past mistakes..lets accept them as trading partners instead even if we don't want to be in a federated Europe.Let's just not bring up old wounds and extremely old wars.

We could find ourselves having to apologise for old issues that frankly I and you are not responsible for..like slavery.I was annoyed that we were expected to apologise for that when it was centuries ago and I don't think that we bear any responsibility for what our forefathers did anymore than we can claim the glory/infamy for old wars that they lost or won either.

[TheNorm]

Originally Posted by Incognitas

...We could find ourselves having to apologise for old issues that frankly I and you are not responsible for..like slavery.I was annoyed that we were expected to apologise for that when it was centuries ago and I don't think that we bear any responsibility for what our forefathers did ....

Except that the Empire was largely built on the blood, sweat and tears of oppressed peoples around the world, including many slaves. Have you ever asked yourself where the money came from to build the stately homes that English Heritage likes to advertise? Sugar plantations, perhaps? Didn't many families in Bristol and Liverpool build up tremendous wealth by trading in slaves? Didn't the Church of England actively endorse slavery in the West Indies?

It is easy to say "forget about the past" when you are the inheritor of the estate.

[papa smurf]

the o/p was a pleasure to read and just remember you cheese eating surrender monkeys we're only 20 miles away