Had a query about the BBC license fee.

[AdamD]

There was a discussion thread on this forum about the BBC's license fee and I think someone said that, no matter how your receive your programs, be it cable, sky, aerial or even the internet, you still have to pay the license fee

So I emailed the TV Licensing company with the following question....

I have a general enquiry regarding the TV License.
Can I just confirm something with you? If I watch TV programmes streamed across the internet to my home computer, which are not live, but pre recorded shows or on demand services, do I still have to pay the TV license fee?

To which, I got this reply

Thank you for your enquiry.

If you use a computer to view television channels at the same time, or nearly the same time, as that TV channel is being broadcast via normal means (eg via a satellite, cable, digital or analogue broadcast) then you will need a TV Licence.

You will not need a TV Licence to view clips on the web, as long as what you are viewing is not being broadcast as a Television service at the same time, or nearly the same time, as you are viewing it.

I hope this helps.

Yours sincerely

Cleo Hines
TV Licensing

Interesting either way
I wonder if the tv license fee will become defunct in the future, with the advent of high speed internet and people being able to download movies/shows etc?

[Hugh]

Arguing over the definition of "nearly the same time" should keep the lawyers in business for a few years..........

[AdamD]

Was thinking the same thing myself.

[Chris]

Originally Posted by AdamD

I wonder if the tv license fee will become defunct in the future, with the advent of high speed internet and people being able to download movies/shows etc?

It won't become defunct, but it may evolve - assumimg Parliament decides, next time the BBC's charter is up for renewal, that it should continue to be licence-funded.

Remember, what we call a TV licence was once a radio licence. But nowadays you don't need a licence for your radio, even though the 'TV licence' pays for a significant proportion of the airtime in the UK thanks to all the national and regional BBC channels.

[Escapee]

The threatening letters they send out are very misleading, many people reading the letter in large red print would and have assumed you need a licence to watch TV on the internet or downloaded via a mobile phone.

The reality is scare tactics, if any other organisation did the same the government would take them to court. It is a bit of a mystery how the private company collecting TV licences are able to get away with these threatening tactics.

If the Gas company were to send you a threatening letters and use similar tactics and you were not a customer, it would possibly be taken up by your local MP.

My latest one says in very large letters 'Urgent Notice' 'Payment Due Immediately' 'Amount £135.50'

Then it says 'We are planning to take further action'

The last time I had a visit, I let the guy in because I had nothing to hide. I showed him around and said 'I am sick to death of these letters, next time you come I will let you in but you will have a nasty accident' I said 'If and when I get a TV I will get a license, I am not buying one just to get you off my back'

The TV licensing people cannot grasp that not everyone needs a TV or indeed has the time to waste watching one. The level of harrasment and inconvenience to collect from the post office letters from them that need to be signed for is extremely annoying to say the least.

[alferret]

2. What is a TV Licence and do I need one?
A TV licence provides a legal permission to install or
use a television receiver in order to receive television
programme services. It’s a criminal offence to install
or use a TV receiver without a valid licence so it is
important to ensure that you are appropriately
licensed.
A ‘television receiver’ includes a television set, a VCR,
a set-top box, a TV-enabled personal computer or any
other equipment designed or modified to enable it to
receive television programmes.
A TV licence is required if you install or use, or intend
to use a television receiver as previously described
above. This means that a licence is required to receive
BBC, ITV, Channel 4, Channel 5, satellite, cable and/or
digital television.
The use of television anywhere in the United Kingdom,
Channel Islands and the Isle of Man needs to be
covered by a licence of the appropriate type and this
guide will help to explain more about how the TV
licensing framework works.

LINK


So if your house doesnt have any of the following, TV, VCR, DVD, TV enabled PC, Mobile Phone or any device that would allow you to recieve any transmission, in any way shape or form, then you are liable to TV licensing.

And yes even streaming TV over the net is classed as requiring a license unless your on dial-up.

[altis]

Originally Posted by alferret

LINK


So if your house doesnt have any of the following, TV, VCR, DVD, TV enabled PC, Mobile Phone or any device that would allow you to recieve any transmission, in any way shape or form, then you are liable to TV licensing.

And yes even streaming TV over the net is classed as requiring a license unless your on dial-up.

Can no body read correctly any more?

There have been more than enough threads on here about when and when you do not require a TV licence - and you do not need one for simply owning a TV.

Consult the Communications Act 2003:
http://www.opsi.gov.uk/acts/acts2003/30021--l.htm#363
http://www.opsi.gov.uk/si/si2004/20040692.htm

[alferret]

Originally Posted by altis

Can no body read correctly any more?

There have been more than enough threads on here about when and when you do not require a TV licence - and you do not need one for simply owning a TV.

Consult the Communications Act 2003:
http://www.opsi.gov.uk/acts/acts2003/30021--l.htm#363
http://www.opsi.gov.uk/si/si2004/20040692.htm

Oh im sorry Altis, i'll go back to school and learn to read and digest the information differently.

And so what if this has been covered before, are people not allowed to ask the question and then have an answer?

The way I read it, is that if you own any eqipment that has the ability to recieve broadcasts, cable, sat, terestrial then you need to pay the fee. There may be 1 or 2 exceptions but on the whole you need a licence, even if you own a dvd player that can receive transmitted channels.

[Escapee]

Originally Posted by alferret

Oh im sorry Altis, i'll go back to school and learn to read and digest the information differently.

And so what if this has been covered before, are people not allowed to ask the question and then have an answer?

The way I read it, is that if you own any eqipment that has the ability to recieve broadcasts, cable, sat, terestrial then you need to pay the fee. There may be 1 or 2 exceptions but on the whole you need a licence, even if you own a dvd player that can receive transmitted channels.

The law as far as I am aware has never changed, the equipment has to be 'Installed' and being 'Used' the enforcement officer has to catch the offender in the act. The information from TV Licensing is purpously misleading, in an attempt to scare people into buying a license for something they do not require.

TV Licensing bend the law (breaking it in most cases), their court cases usually rely soley on the offenders signiture at the time of the investigation. (Yes some fools would sign to admit committing an offence) The TV Licensing investigators as I understand are working on a commisson basis and are encouraged to use bully boy tactics. For this very reason the humble pensioner or housewife fooled into signing something that they are not legally required gets them a visit to court, these type of people make up the majority of offenders taken to court.

There is no legal requirement to allow entry to TV Licensing to your premises, nor is there any requirement to reply to their harrassing letters. In fact I gave up replying because they will not stop sending these letters even if you have let them into your property.

Never ask a TV Licensing officer if you need a license to do xyz, because you will most probably get the answer 'Yes' There are many people evading the TV license fee which may be immoral, but the actions of the TV Licensing officers illegal bully boy tactics are beyond doubt.

[alferret]

Originally Posted by Escapee

The law as far as I am aware has never changed, the equipment has to be 'Installed' and being 'Used' the enforcement officer has to catch the offender in the act. The information from TV Licensing is purpously misleading, in an attempt to scare people into buying a license for something they do not require.
snip!

True, but lets face it, who would go out and buy a TV, DVD, Sat and have them all boxed up unused?

If its out of the box and plugged into a socket you can bet your bottom dollar that its being used even if at that particular moment in time its off.

Just my thoughts on this

[altis]

Okay Alferret. I have a satellite dish on the roof, a receiver in the kitchen and I don't have a TV licence. I'm not worried because I don't need one. You see, the receiver only has the radio channels configured and, short of reconfiguring it, there is no way it can display broadcast television.

The law says:

Originally Posted by my highlights

(1) A television receiver must not be installed or used unless the installation and use of the receiver is authorised by a licence under this Part.

This equipment is neither used as a televison receiver nor is installed as such.

It is not suprising there is much misunderstanding. There is much fear, uncertainty and doubt promoted by TV Licensing. Try this thread:
http://www.digitalspy.co.uk/forums/s...threadid=70177

Incidentally, the Comms Act 2003 has, I believe, change the situation slightly. Previously, the television had to be 'used' so they had to catch you in the act. Now it can be 'installed' or 'used' so, if by turning the TV on you get a picture, you'll need a licence. Previously, only broadcasts eminating from the UK were considered. So, for example, it was possible to receive broadcasts from Ireland without a licence. Now you do. Also, the notion of 'nearly live' broadcasts has been included. This is to cover the delay inherent in digital TV transmission. Previously, it could be argued that, because of the delay involved, a licence was not required. I highlighted this anomoly in the DS thread above. You still do not need a licence to watch a program that was previously recorded on licensed premises.

There is some, slightly out of date, information here:
http://www.jifvik.org/tv/
Warning: needs careful reading and follow the links to the scanned letters.
Here's some letters of my own:
http://homepage.ntlworld.com/altisuk/temp/tvl01.jpg
http://homepage.ntlworld.com/altisuk/temp/tvl02.jpg

[chickendippers]

As the TV Licence is used to pay for the production and purchase of programming perhaps the charge will have to evolve from the presence of a TV on the premises to simply watching any program that is broadcast by the channels it funds?

Things like internet TV and on demand will make enforcement easy as they will be able to tell for certain whether you are watching the programming and whether you have a licence. In theory it would be possible for programming to be blocked if you don't have one, so a message like "You need a TV Licence to view this program" could be displayed when attempting to watch.

It would certainly save the hassle for people who don't have a TV, and save a few trees as they won't need to send out many letters, also it'll shut up the people who moan "oh I don't watch the BBC"

[Escapee]

Originally Posted by alferret

True, but lets face it, who would go out and buy a TV, DVD, Sat and have them all boxed up unused?

If its out of the box and plugged into a socket you can bet your bottom dollar that its being used even if at that particular moment in time its off.

Just my thoughts on this

I take your point, but in my case the problems 'really' started because I innocently went out and bought a DVD recorder for my parents christmas present.

Because I had nothing to hide and didn't even give it a tought, I just gave my name and address when I purchased it. As far as TV Licencing are concerned I am guilty and fair game to be hounded until I give in and buy a license. They told me that they would remove me from their records, this they appear to of done, but as advised after a period of time the letters start arriving again.

The lack of TV and license was originally due to the fact that I bought a house from a family member requiring lots of work, this meant all my spare time being spent on the house. (Still is) However it has now become a mixture of a) not missing TV b) still too busy to waste time watching it and c) being so p****d off with their SS style approach that I will not have one for the foreseeable future on principle.

I visit my parents a few times a week and watch the one program whilst having food, my father always records the boxing for me on the DVD recorder I bought them because my parents also have my satellite system with full package paid for by me and registered at my address without a TV or License.