Motoring offence

[isaacnewton]

I've got a summons for a speeding offence . For those familiar with other motoring websites etc. there is a case going through the European Court of Justice at the minute, which if won, would render all speeding convictions invalid.
Some people have allegedly had their cases adjourned citing this case (O'Halloran and Francis vs UK Government), does anyone know if this request can be presented beforehand or do you have to wait until you get to court?

Also, the forms sent by the court refer to me as "Andy" rather than my full name. There is a section for bringing this to their attention but will it delay the case?

[Chris W]

It seems unlikely to me that cases would be adjourned on the grounds of a current ongoing case, as the current precedent is not affected until that case is resolved. Cases going through the ECJ can (and often do) take years, so i very much doubt the courts would allow an adjournment of every case involving speeding until that case is resolved, as it would result in a massive backlog.

If i remember correctly the case you are referring to is concerning the use of the NIP and the clash with the notion that one is innocent until proven guilty. Hope the guy who is bringing the case has a lot of financial backing, because if he loses then he faces a helluva legal bill for ECJ time!

Just to clarify though, were you actually speeding? If so IMO you shouldn't try to wriggle out of it, but should pay your penalty for breaking the law. Whatever peoples attitude to speed cameras is, speeding is a crime just like any other and if you have committed it you should pay the penalty.

[TheNorm]

Originally Posted by Chris W

...Just to clarify though, were you actually speeding? If so IMO you shouldn't try to wriggle out of it, but should pay your penalty for breaking the law. Whatever peoples attitude to speed cameras is, speeding is a crime just like any other and if you have committed it you should pay the penalty.

Agreed. People should only take their case to court if (a) they think they are innocent, or (b) the law needs to be changed (e.g. badly worded, out of date, etc.)

If neither of the above, then pay up and shut up. The last thing this country needs is the USA style scenario of courts full of money-hungry lawyers, playing the system as if it was some sort of poker game.

Supposing ofcourse that everyone who speeds is treated with the same parity, in as much as your work clothes do not work in your favour!
As for the name thing, it could cause a delay if you raise an issue over it, my name is william, I do not mind bill, but why not keep them waiting? who knows, if the case has to be rescheduled and the prosecution cannot attend it may be thrown out! I say "may "

[marky]

The name on the summons should be in your full name, guilty or not it should be thrown out if they cant get your name right, its not exactly a typo is it.
I doubt is says Andy on the log book ?

[Chris W]

my V5 says Chris... just depends on what you write when you send it back to the DVLA

[marky]

If it does say Andy on the log book then you are bang to rights and may aswell take the points and fine as a lesson.

Btw. Ive got a squeeky clean licence

[m8internet]

I've had various alleged speeding offences against me terminated or thrown out of court, for various reasons

1 :
My driving licence is in my full name (example) Andrew Brian Charlie
I am the only insured driver Andrew B Charlie, as stated on the policy documents
I am the Registered Keeper of the vehicle Andrew Charlie
As a result, where the Police require to send a notice to the Registered Keeper the reply then goes back that the driver is the same person with a different name
Their forms do not allow for this, or take this into account
As a result a NEW notice has to be issued, but all too often the same notice is issued and this is an incorrect procedure

2 :
The equipment used MUST be Home Office type approved
This list is updated every month
Full calibration is required before the equipment is first used
A system calibration is then required before each daily use, and at the end of that days use

3 :
Speeding offences, or offences relating to excessive speed, MUST be declared to 2 decimal places AND in the correct format
99.99mph would be correct
99mph is NOT correct
This should also appear on the summons, along with date, time, location, AND direction of travel

4 :
Where the location is known and the speed limit was NOT 30mph, the name of the Traffic Order must be included, along with the speed limit that would apply at that time

5 :
There are various time limits for processing of documents
However, a court can decide that more time was sufficient to allow for Police enquiries
In general though they are as follows
14 days for the Registered Keeper to be notifed by post
A further 14 days for the Driver to be notified by post, on receipt of the above confirming the name and address of the driver
6 months for submission of offence to court by CPS/PF
36 months for submission for more serious offences (example : death by dangerous driving)

6 :
The court can only impose sentence based on "live" endorsements
The prosecution will present previous offences that do not appear on the licence, but these should be discounted and excluded, expect in more serious offences where imprisonment is likely
A tip here is to send your licence away as soon as you are caught speeding to have any points that have just expired, removed from your licence
Remember - change of address on a driving licence is FREE!

I've got two traffic offences outstanding, and both are likely to get thrown out
The first accuses me of excessive braking, but my vehicle has AVL fitted and I have already confirmed that the officer did not see the rear brake lights flash, and of driving through a Bus Lane, but at that time the Bus Lane was NOT in effect!
The second accuses me of driving at 88mph in a 50mph zone
In Scotland roadsigns are required to be illuminated, and these were not, but the previous ones were
The speed detection device used was also not Home Office approved

[Chris W]

Originally Posted by m8internet

I've had various alleged speeding offences against me terminated or thrown out of court, for various reasons

Well done. You've picked up on technicalities. At the end of the day you were still speeding, which is still against the law. Clearly from what you say you make a habit of it as well. I hope you get caught soon and everything is done by the proper processes and when you get to court they take your licence away.

[LSainsbury]

Current Affairs?

[marky]

Originally Posted by Chris W

Well done. You've picked up on technicalities. At the end of the day you were still speeding, which is still against the law. Clearly from what you say you make a habit of it as well. I hope you get caught soon and everything is done by the proper processes and when you get to court they take your licence away.

He said "alleged" so not proven guilty

[Chicken]

excessive braking ???

[TheNorm]

Originally Posted by Chicken

excessive braking ???

Perhaps he was approaching a Gatso at twice the legal limit?

Just a hypothesis.

Originally Posted by isaacnewton

I've got a summons for a speeding offence . For those familiar with other motoring websites etc. there is a case going through the European Court of Justice at the minute, which if won, would render all speeding convictions invalid.
Some people have allegedly had their cases adjourned citing this case (O'Halloran and Francis vs UK Government), does anyone know if this request can be presented beforehand or do you have to wait until you get to court?

Also, the forms sent by the court refer to me as "Andy" rather than my full name. There is a section for bringing this to their attention but will it delay the case?

Dude, posting on a big forum like this about this subject (as a first post...odd???), you're NEVER gonna get the back up you want.
Go to fastfords/VW's/VX's .com or whatever and check there!

I HATE the GATSO/TRUVELO's as much as anyone else, but I've got balls enough to say if I went through above the limit, I'll hold my hands up and take the rap.
Forget messing about trying to squirm out of it - give your blood pressure a break and send the forms back and move on.
You're not the first and won't be the last.
It's a money making venture - any serious motorist knows that.
BUT if you were doing above the percentage allowed in a restricted area, you're bang to rights. Stop babbling and get it dealt with.
And slow down, ffs.

[m8internet]

The alleged offences are not against the law, until proven in a court of law
I attend court about once a month as part of my work, so this experience helps greatly

For the traffic offences, I have been reported for so many I have lost count now!
I've never even accepted a roadside FPN (Fixed Penalty Notice), I have advised the officer that I will decline the offer
When I do get an endorsement, and I've only had three, I play it safe for 6 months, driving like Lucy
Two offences within 6 months and you can be pretty sure that any further sentence may result in a ban
Licence has been clean for the last 4 years

As for the excessive speed and driving through a Bus Lane
Normally that would be dealt with by way of FPN, but I declined it at the roadside
I was driving within the speed limit (60mph) and braked for a corner, reducing my speed to 50mph
On exiting the corner my path was blocked by a puddle and oncoming vehicle, and therefore I stopped
The Police car behind (and it was about 15 to 20 vehicle lengths behind) observed and decided I braked hard, even though the ABL did not activate on my car
The officer also advised that he had observed me driving through a Bus Lane and would also report me for that offence
However, the signs (and the Traffic Order for that Bus Lane) clearly state Mon - Sat 07:00 to 09:00 and 16:00 to 18:00
It was Sunday night 23:45