Just been TUPEd

[brundles]

Thought I'd post this here as from vague memory there are a number of people who have been through the TUPE process with their employers on here.

Anyway, my employer is selling our entire department to IBM and then buying the product we build back as part of an outsourcing deal. Sounds good so far... The problem is that IBMs plan is to spend a significant chunk of time later on this year transitioning the work to IBM India .

Just wondered if anyone had any advice on what sort of things we can expect and what sort of things to be wary of.

Thanks!

[skyblueheroes]

I got Tupe'd and the over-riding fact is that you cannot by law (I think) be any worse off as part of the move. In fact, if your union negotiates a proper deal you may be exempt from IBM T&C's and salary scales and keep your own. This is something another company did with my present employer and their rises are guaranteed for 5 years to be outside of the normal company salary review.

However, I guess IBM's long term plan is another issue, so you might end up more unsecure as part of the move.

[superbiatch]

I think its fair to remember no one is safe in their jobs these days

I was TUPE'd to another NHS trust. I kept my same terms and conditions and contractually they are not allowed to change your T&C without getting you to sign a new contract.

There was another thread recently (Nidge started it i think!) and his employers were trying to change the hourly working week etc. You are protected from things like this unless you opt to sign a new contract, which could be more benefitting to you AFAIK.

I'd suggest you join a union if you're not already in one

[skyblueheroes]

The scary thing is that my company might lose a contract to IBM

[brundles]

Originally Posted by superbiatch

I'd suggest you join a union if you're not already in one

Nope - no unions here.

To be honest, it's not the TUPE itself that I'm worried about. It's more that there doesn't seem to be any idea of how it's going to work, timescales, etc. Todays meeting seemed to consist of "This is why it's good for us (from miles in the sky)". Beyond that there wasn't much information available - it's the not knowing what's really going that's the worst part.

[Wicked_and_Crazy]

TUPE doesnt cover your pension arrangements so you can be considerably worse off

[superbiatch]

Originally Posted by brundles

Nope - no unions here.

To be honest, it's not the TUPE itself that I'm worried about. It's more that there doesn't seem to be any idea of how it's going to work, timescales, etc. Todays meeting seemed to consist of "This is why it's good for us (from miles in the sky)". Beyond that there wasn't much information available - it's the not knowing what's really going that's the worst part.

I remember that time well! But unfortunately you can't force these things and i think the best thing you could is accept the fact that what will be will be and try not to stress about it too much. I know, easier said than done - the queen of stress here (hair started falling out, but believe me its not worth it!)

Do you have any other employment opportunities open to you? Could this unsettlement be time to move on anyway?

[Scarlett]

I hate to be the cynical one (actually I don't but it sounds better;-) ) I'd suggest starting to look for a new job right now!(That means internally within IBM as well as externally!)

Do you actually like your job? are you enjoying going to work, the challenge? if so try and find some thing similar. Otherwise sit down and have a good think about what you actually want to do.

In any case I'd certainly suggest getting your CV upto date. I've been TUPE'd once before and it wasn't too bad however it was simply the Co. I was working for taking the call centre back'in-house'. I've been outsorced twice now...

Your comment that they are intending to sell the dev to india indicates that your an expense that they don't need and as soon as convienient they'll be giving you the ol' spanish archer (El Bow). Been there, done that, got the t-shirt.

I'm not suggesting that you jump ship right now but getting you CV out into the market soon will allow you to see what is out there and what interest there is in your skills.

Scarlett

[AntiSilence]

Originally Posted by Scarlett

Been there, done that, got the t-shirt.

Quality t-shirt there.

[brundles]

I do like the job I do and the challenges it throws at me (even when they appear at 2am on a Saturday and last all weekend). Moving to another job either elsewhere or internally at IBM (after the TUPE) is a possibility - the main thing would be how it would affect t'wife. She's really happy in her job too - something that took a long time and about 5 jobs before she found that happiness at work. An internal move in IBM is likely to result in having to relocate based on what the different sites do.

The transition to India is something we don't have too much information about. Apparently IBM intend to keep some sort of group in the UK but we have no information on what sort/size/roles that will be. (Actually we have pretty much no information at all from IBM yet).

I'm thinking the best advice so far is to put the old CV out there to see if anything interesting appears while seeing what happens.

Wicked_and_Crazy - In terms of pensions, does that apply to defined benefit, defined contributions (where I'm guessing it will only affect the employers contribution) or both?

Originally Posted by superbiatch

I think its fair to remember no one is safe in their jobs these days

I was TUPE'd to another NHS trust. I kept my same terms and conditions and contractually they are not allowed to change your T&C without getting you to sign a new contract.

There was another thread recently (Nidge started it i think!) and his employers were trying to change the hourly working week etc. You are protected from things like this unless you opt to sign a new contract, which could be more benefitting to you AFAIK.

I'd suggest you join a union if you're not already in one

Yeah I starterd it and it's still ongoing They keep badgering us to sign the contract, all we keep getting off them is there is no hidden agenda. Stick to your guns, the people on here sorted our lot out at work.

[bbiguy]

Originally Posted by brundles

Thought I'd post this here as from vague memory there are a number of people who have been through the TUPE process with their employers on here.

Anyway, my employer is selling our entire department to IBM and then buying the product we build back as part of an outsourcing deal. Sounds good so far... The problem is that IBMs plan is to spend a significant chunk of time later on this year transitioning the work to IBM India .

Just wondered if anyone had any advice on what sort of things we can expect and what sort of things to be wary of.

Thanks!

---------- Post added at 02:31 ---------- Previous post was at 01:50 ----------

Hi. was also Tuped its meant to be a simple transition of contract,whereby your contract is out-sourced and all contractural obligations (to previous company) are meant to apply. Nah not that simple (with regret, I would rather have taken redundancy and been reemployed on new company's terms). My Pension is frozen (not transferred despite repeated attempts to rectify), I no longer have death in service or liability insurance (all work related accidents are deducted from salary. 1,2or 3 week holidays are no problem unless their mid week, my company deducts holiday/sickness and peace rate (their legally bound to pay basic tuped salary) under achievement. In other words if I fail to meet salaried day rate(working peace rate, paid by job etc) underpayments are deducted from any o/t worked. Similarily single day holiday or sickness are treatesd in the same manner. Totally ilegal according to ACAS, best of luck in resolving, I'm £3,000 + down after 4 years Tuped.

[AndyCambs]

Transfer of Undertakings and Protection of Employees Act 2006 (to give it the full title), does require that the employer have meaningful negotiations with employee representatives. This would normally be a trade union if you have one, otherwise an elected person or persons for each group affected by the transfer.

The act essentially makes your current conditions of employment the same with the new employer - however this would also mean that if the new employer only wanted a half sized department for example, it's the new employer who is obliged to pay the redundancy. If I recall correctly from my TUPE, the conditions cannot be changed within a two year period.

You have the option of not accepting the transfer, but the alternative is dismissal, which always seems a little harsh to me.

My suggestion is that you find out who the employee representatives are (if there are none apparent, then ask your current employer who they are - there has to be some) and prepare your questions. The question of pensions should be addressed at that point. In my case it was agreed our pensions would remain with the current supplier. (We also had another question about the Christmas party.....!) The act provides a framework, and it's possible that your old and new employer will agree to additional benefits being transferred. Similarly, if the new company has better conditions (for example holiday entitlement) then this too should be brought up by the employee representatives.

[cookie_365]

Sounds like a great opportunity to me, IBM are supposed to be a great employer with opportunities all over the place, and you keep your Ts & Cs.

Change doesn't have to be bad

[Maggy J]

This thread is 4 years old,I'm sure brundles knows what's what by now..