Saw III - Have they gone too far?

Salu · 01-11-2006, 11:22

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/entertainment/6101704.stm

One problem with this type of horror movie is that they seem to have to go further each time becoming more and more horrific each time to whet the appetite of the movie-goer. I'm not sure this is healthy for the psyche of the individual.
I'm also concerned that there will be a gradual numbing/acceptance of what you are seeing as being OK to see. I'm not saying that the viewer won't necessarily be able to separate reality from a movie (although some may not) but this normalisation I'm concerned is unhealthy.

To illustrate this a seasoned horror movie goer will be much more acclimatised to the content Saw III than someone who has only seen Psycho in B&W. Also someone who has only seen Gone with the Wind will be deeply affected by Psycho....

Should there be a limit on what is shown? Not necessarily a nanny state imposition but a moral limit from the film producers. Have they gone too far?

**Hugh** · 01-11-2006, 11:32

Fortunately (for me) these sort of films don't attract me (Hostel, apparently, was equally as gory and violent).

I have no issues with realistic effects (Saving Private Ryan) which shows the true impact of violence, rather than someone just falling over when they are shot, but visceral torture scenes just for tittilation don't do anything for me.

I agree with you, Salu, in that the worry is this may create a gradual numbing and acceptance (somewhat along the lines of the porn industry since the 70's), and the fact that unsupervised children may see these - they shouldn't, but stuff happens.

However, if they are cert18, we have to take some responsibility for ourselves (and our children), so setting limits legally worries me. It would be better if after a while, people got bored and stopped going to see them - Market Forces at work.

punky · 01-11-2006, 11:46

No. People should always be pushing boundaries, for precisely the reason you cited... People become acclimatised. Otherwise we are on a boat to mediocrity.

We are more of a nanny state than ever. Already we have endless warnings about the movies we can watch. People should be allowed to watch what they want, not what the government thinks its healthy for them to. Stiffling creativity is a horrible thing.

handyman · 01-11-2006, 11:54

People often blame films for twisting minds. I have seen both saw 1 and saw 2 and it takes that level of gore to make a film give me mild shivers. I will watch saw 3 and will hopefully enjoy it as well.

**Hugh** · 01-11-2006, 11:56

Quote:

Originally Posted by punky

No. People should always be pushing boundaries, for precisely the reason you cited... People become acclimatised. Otherwise we are on a boat to mediocrity.

We are more of a nanny state than ever. Already we have endless warnings about the movies we can watch. People should be allowed to watch what they want, not what the government thinks its healthy for them to. Stiffling creativity is a horrible thing.

Creativity, or pandering to basest instincts - tough call

I am against censorship, but am uncomfortable with scenes like those described in Saw3 and Hostel - imo, self-censorship is enough for me, but some protection should be in place for minors (not miners, not many of those left in the UK) - increased fines for adults renting them to under 18's, and fines for parents who let their young kids watch them.

lauzjp · 01-11-2006, 12:01

I really enjoy horror films, but I still get shocked... Saw 3 has several moments that made me very nearly

and go 'UGH!' out-loud, along with most of the rest of the audience... however I was reassured that most people found it entertaining as there was much applause and a few

's at the end!

**Chris** · 01-11-2006, 12:03

Like Punky, I am reluctant to shout 'ban it!' as I think there should be a presumption in favour of adults taking personal responsibility rather than the State telling us what's good and bad (although I don't rule out State intervention in certain circumstances).

What bothers me more is, why people have a need to immerse themselves in such extreme horror as this? What is it about the human psyche that derives entertainment from watching extreme acts of torture and killing of their fellow humans, even if those acts are simulated?

lauzjp · 01-11-2006, 12:21

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chris T

What bothers me more is, why people have a need to immerse themselves in such extreme horror as this? What is it about the human psyche that derives entertainment from watching extreme acts of torture and killing of their fellow humans, even if those acts are simulated?

hmm, good point. You could say that of anything though - I'm perplexed as to why do people find wrestling or boxing entertaining?

I like horror films because I find them challenging, interesting, and compelling... I don't know. I'm rubbish at explaining myself!?

gazzae · 01-11-2006, 12:50

Haven't seen it yet, is it much gorier than Saw or Saw II?

lauzjp · 01-11-2006, 13:02

it's not exactly 'gory' - yes, there are a few scenes of (blood) gore - there are other scenes that are even more stomach churning... -without wanting to give anything away! It's like being on a rollercoaster...

**Stephen** · 01-11-2006, 13:15

I saw this at the weekend, and have seen a lot of horror films.

This actually made me feel ill in places due to the gore in the film and on a few occasions the full screen made it clear they were grossed out by what they saw.

Salu · 01-11-2006, 13:17

Quote:

Originally Posted by handyman

People often blame films for twisting minds. I have seen both saw 1 and saw 2 and it takes that level of gore to make a film give me mild shivers. I will watch saw 3 and will hopefully enjoy it as well.

That illustrates my point nicely. It now takes that level of horror to move you. 10 years ago you probably would have been moved by a lot less.

It's the same with porn. People start with mild titilation and gradually need more and more graphic images to turn them on (allegedly...

). A women can be more sexy with clothes on than completely naked (allegedly...

). I feel that horror movies can be more "scary" when they infer rather than show. I've not seen Saw III (and won't) but I understand that it majors on horrific dilemmas and dreadful self-mutilation.

I think the 18 certificate is hopelessly inadequate. It certainly indicates that you need to be a legal adult to watch it but I want more guidance than that. I want to know the reason it is an 18. I would also want to know if it have anything remotely like what Saw III has in it. Similar to what is on the side of some videos/DVDs.

lauzjp · 01-11-2006, 13:55

Quote:

Originally Posted by Salu

That illustrates my point nicely. It now takes that level of horror to move you. 10 years ago you probably would have been moved by a lot less. It's the same with porn. People start with mild titilation and gradually need more and more graphic images to turn them on (allegedly...

). A women can be more sexy with clothes on than completely naked (allegedly...

). I feel that horror movies can be more "scary" when they infer rather than show. I've not seen Saw III (and won't) but I understand that it majors on horrific dilemmas and dreadful self-mutilation.

I understand your point. Perhaps it shows how easily I scare when I saw Blair Witch Project is one of my favourite films, as you the viewer are interpreting what is going on and scaring yourself silly - there isn't much actually going on until one of them goes missing..

As for Saw III; if you liked either of the other two, you should see this.

Spoiler:

greencreeper · 01-11-2006, 23:25

It's called "PR" - everyone will be rushing to see the movie because it's that bad, people have been passing out

**Damien** · 02-11-2006, 00:02

Quote:

Originally Posted by punky

No. People should always be pushing boundaries, for precisely the reason you cited... People become acclimatised. Otherwise we are on a boat to mediocrity.

We are more of a nanny state than ever. Already we have endless warnings about the movies we can watch. People should be allowed to watch what they want, not what the government thinks its healthy for them to. Stiffling creativity is a horrible thing.

I do not think it should be censored, but the content is not exactly pusing the right boundaries. These, as was said, are not creative, artistic or social boundaries. This was just a level of gore. It offers little more but the certain prospect of it increasing in later films.

You do not need to increase the amount of gore and violence to avoid a film becoming boring. People may become acclimatised to the horror and the action but if that happens, then the film should be able to keep your attention in other ways (like making you care about the outcome of the characters and therefor tense, Horror films can achive this with minimal bloodshed). If not then all you went to watch is a film thats full of gore for the sake of the gore. The entire films merit being the amount of blood they can put on screen and how close to viomiting you are.

That would be kind of sad