Holiday Insurance - Read the Policy Limitations

[Rob]

A scuba diver holidaying in Egypt is facing a £40,000 bill for medical treatment after an accident diving:
http://www.divernet.com/news/stories/130805bill.shtml
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/w...ds/4144366.stm

Irrespective of the actual incident and what occurred, the crux of the issue is the injured party exceeded the limitations of his holiday insurance. He's not covered.

Many travel insurance policies don't offer much cover for activities they consider hazardous. Even something as simple as mountain biking or windsurfing might not be covered. Read the small print on any holiday package or even standard travel agent's policy. Make sure it is right for you.
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For anyone interested, the bends (better described as Decompression Illness - DCI) is an issue commmonly the result of a diver absorbing nitrogen at pressure into the body tissues whilst underwater. The nitrogen is ablsorbed more quickly than it is released. Having absorbed nitrogen, if the diver has too much of it in the body, as he comes to the surface the decreasing pressure of water allows the nitrogen to expand forming bubbles inside the body. These bubbles cause injury. Dehydration can predispose the body to DCI, as less liquid in the body affects the flow of blood and the ability of cells to absorb and release gasses.

The effect of expanding bubbles is the same as the release of saturated gasses in carbonated drinks like coke bottles. The gas is happy while the lid is on, release the lid, and the bubbles form.

Recreational divers trained to Advanced Open Water diver level are limited by their qualification to 30m depth. Divers can safely dive to the 48m depth this chap did, but should have increased technical training and equipment. From everything I've seen to date, he did not have such resources.

[marky]

i suppose its an extreme sport

not the normal package holiday thing
and i just read about the bends http://www.netdoctor.co.uk/travel/di...n_sickness.htm
not nice

[danielf]

Originally Posted by Rob C

A scuba diver holidaying in Egypt is facing a £40,000 bill for medical treatment after an accident diving:
http://www.divernet.com/news/stories/130805bill.shtml
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/w...ds/4144366.stm

Irrespective of the actual incident and what occurred, the crux of the issue is the injured party exceeded the limitations of his holiday insurance. He's not covered.

Many travel insurance policies don't offer much cover for activities they consider hazardous. Even something as simple as mountain biking or windsurfing might not be covered. Read the small print on any holiday package or even standard travel agent's policy. Make sure it is right for you.

I would expect someone that goes scubadiving to depths nearing 50 meters to make sure his insurance covers this. Especially considering the stuff you posted regarding qualifications. Frankly, I think the insurance company is right in not paying out.

[Rob]

Actually scuba diving, is a very common holiday activity, and at a recreational level is far from extreme. The depths this guy went to are beyond recreational.

Many ordinary holidaymakers will be tempted when sitting by the swimming pool at a hotel by the bronzed bod turning up offerring a try dive in the pool. That quickly leads you to an excursion trip out for a one day intro to diving or "discover scuba" course.

What about parasailing, waterskiing, bungee jumping, and so on. As I said read the small print before paricipating, just in case.
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Originally Posted by danielf

I would expect someone that goes scubadiving to depths nearing 50 meters to make sure his insurance covers this. Especially considering the stuff you posted regarding qualifications. Frankly, I think the insurance company is right in not paying out.

Yep I dd agree the insurance company is quite justified in refusing the claim. This wasn't a minor infringement of the policy limits but a very significant margin.

However that a claim was submitted does suggest a perception that people thought he would be covered. Hence the warning, make sure you understand your policy covers for anything you decide to do. It's a long way home.

[Xaccers]

Most policies consider recreational scuba diving (ie no deeper than the 30m limit) not to be a hazardous sport.
I'd be interested to know what dive school he went with. Might email Camel and ask if they mention anything about insurance for deeper dives.
At 30m you can see the air pressure needle move (you're taking in 4 lungfulls with every breath unless my calculations are wrong, think it's 1atm extra for every 10m)

[SMHarman]

^ as he said, my policy states...

when the Beneficiary is engaging in the following sports and activities the Excess is increased to GBP 200 (and use of a Form E111 does not negate this increased excess: abseiling; American football; baseball; bungee
jumping; canoeing; clay pigeon shooting; deep sea fishing; fell running; go-karting; hang gliding; hockey; horse riding; hot air ballooning; jet biking and jet skiing; martial arts; microlighting; mountain biking off tarmac; mountaineering; parachuting; paragliding; parascending; polo; potholing; quad biking; rock climbing; rugby; skidoo; scuba diving deeper than 30 metres; tour operator safari (where You or any other tourists will be carrying guns); trekking; war games/paint ball; white water canoeing and rafting; yachting more than 20 nautical miles from the nearest coastline, bob-sleigh, heli-skiing, ice hockey, luge, paraskiing, skeleton, ski-jumping, ski-stunting.

“Special Sports� means boxing; cave diving; horse jumping; hunting and hunting on horseback; professional sports; solo canyoning; solo caving; solo diving; solo mountain-climbing; steeple chasing; any form of motor racing, speed, performance or endurance tests.

and excludes

Participation in extreme sports where special equipment, training and preparation are required.

Infact last time I dived (in Sharm, well Sharks Bay with Camel actually) I planned to do my Advanced Open Water while I was over there and specifically contacted my insurers before I went as part of the course involved going down to 40m and getting narked (while under the supervision of your divemaster) to understand the effects and how it affects you.
This was insured as it was supervised etc.
You are also insured as a rec. diver if on accident you end up below 30m. This guy planned this dive, did it solo? and didn't read his insurance policy, despite knowing that AOW limits you to 30m depth. Your training makes that quite clear.

If you buy 3rd Party car insurance and have your claim denied for a replacement car when you write yours off you don't go winging to the papers, he bought rec. diving insurance and did "Special Sports" diving off the back of it and as such is not covered.

Originally Posted by Xaccers

At 30m you can see the air pressure needle move (you're taking in 4 lungfulls with every breath unless my calculations are wrong, think it's 1atm extra for every 10m)

and at 50m... Thats 6 ATM, you've already compressed the air in the tank down to a 6th of what is was at sea level.

I wonder what was down at 50m that he wanted to see or was he just going for a personal depth record (a stupid thing IMHO), at that depth you air lasts minutes or parts of minutes and your dive computer will be telling you that you have seconds before you need to start your ascent, it's cold and dark too, there are some deep wrecks there but around 40m, not 50.

[Rob]

The only dive site I can think of around Marsa Alam area that people do push the limits on is Elphinstone, a reef accessible from shore by RIB or day boat. Many go deep to see if there are sharks down there.

As a recreational diver, not a technical diver, he may only have had a 12litre cylinder of air. The speed at which that would be drained at that depth is amazing. Tech divers would have two cylinders, and perhaps other redundancy. He would have been close to the limits that air can be breathed as the pressure of oxygen will become toxic. This is regardless of the narcosis effect (nitrogen can make you feel like you are drunk). I know that some diving systems, BSAC in particular did allow 50m dives on air, but that was has largely been superceded with better dive kit and special gas mixes such as Trimix. Realistically anyone diving to that depth would have been expecting to do decompression stops, and that is beyond the training of an AOW qualified diver. With the limited amount of gas he would have had available, a conservative dive profile, including various stops on the ascent, would have been unlikely.

Another point to consider is that dives to that depth are less proven for many models used by some recreational dive computers (a depth guage / timer that works out how long you can stay at depths to minimise risks of DCI - note the word minimise since you can never totally rule it out unless you do not dive).

It is worth noting that on every trip I have been on diving in the Red Sea, the dive guides have emphasised the 30m limit. Yes it is regularly broken, but not to such excess as this.

[SMHarman]

Originally Posted by Rob C

Another point to consider is that dives to that depth are less proven for many models used by some recreational dive computers (a depth guage / timer that works out how long you can stay at depths to minimise risks of DCI - note the word minimise since you can never totally rule it out unless you do not dive).

He seems to be arguing (from his decompression chamber) that the computer said it was OK... The entire problem with diving at the edge of the tables, when did he last drink, or was he dehydrated because of the 40deg heat there at this time of year (and on a boat you don't notice it). What diving had he done the previous day.

Originally Posted by Rob C

It is worth noting that on every trip I have been on diving in the Red Sea, the dive guides have emphasised the 30m limit. Yes it is regularly broken, but not to such excess as this.

Two points here, you are on a trip with a group (not solo as this indicates), you are with a dive master (which normally means such a dive - or at least a 40M depth - is insured).
Regularly broken, if your experience follows mine, you are following your guide and when checking your air realise that you are at say 35m as they have taken you to look at a specific feature of the reef, not finding yourself at 40+ m, in any case this reduces your dive time so much that most rec. divers will complain to their guide that they would prefer longer, not deeper dives.

[Rob]

Certainly very few if any recreational dive buddies would conciously follow someone to these depths. Thus yes he would effectively be diving solo, even if part of a team.

Just looking at my own standard annual travel insurance from Direct Line. That would cover me for scuba to only 18m. It's important to realise all policies are not the same. Just because you are diving with a group or on a led dive does not mean the insurance would be valid. If in doubt check first.

Indeed it is important that all qualified divers accept that they, not the dive guide, are responsible for their own actions. Just because one person goes somewhere doesn't mean everyone else has to follow like lemmings. The adage "Plan The Dive - Dive The Plan", must apply.

Specialist insurance policies are available. I have one from DAN (DIvers Alert Network) it's not a travel policy as such, more a dive specific one. I particularly like the DAN one in that it doesn't put limits on the dive depth, recreational / techinical activity or whatever. There is even cover for lost kit if you have to ditch it when assisting others in an emergency.

[Xaccers]

I'm pretty sure solo diving in the Red Sea off Sharm is illegal, however it does happen.
First year I went, they pulled a body out of the water, max depth on his instruments was about 120m
They think he was out narking (going down below 30m to deliberately get the effects of nitrogen narcosis).

Anyone know how deep the caves are out in Ras Mohammad?
Often saw people dropping like stones, with as many tanks as they could strapped to them as they plummetted into the darkness.

Thistlegorm is around 40m isn't it?

[Rob]

Thistlegorm is about 32 to the seabed. Upper parts of the wreck are much higher placing it comfortably in reach of the experienced recreational diver.

Interestingly the more recently discovered "must see" wreck for liveaboard divers is the Rosalie Muller. When I saw her 3 years ago she was so undisturbed that pots were still hanging up over the galley stove! She sits upright in 42/43m with main decks at about 32m. That is Definitely cutting it fine on air for time duration, and divers considering this should at least have a deep diver speciality training, and I'd recommend a redundant air source (pony cylinder).

The Ras Mohammed caves in places are known to go down to 90m with entrances at 30m, but cave diving itself is a very specialist field. There are some shallower caves and caverns too. is your friend Utlimately and diving beyond 40m should be considered as tech diver only, but that would explain why you saw divers with loads of tanks. They would need them, some would contain special gas mixes suited to the depths, and above all their training would allow them to do such dives, in a competent manner.

Solo diving around the world is frowned upon. It's something that would need a lot of redundant kit so as to cover failures. The recreational diver is unlikely to have such kit.

There will always be the odd idiot who exceeds or ignores the guidance. Insurance, dive guides and most importantly dive buddies shouldn't be pressurised or expect to have to pick up the pieces for their actions.

[Xaccers]

Originally Posted by Rob C

most importantly dive buddies shouldn't be pressurised or expect to have to pick up the pieces for their actions.

Tell me about it!
The number of dives I've had ruined by reckless, inexperienced or down right stupid buddies astounds me!