Need some advice on unemployment laws

AdamD · 13-06-2005, 23:37

It hasn't quite come to it yet, but i'd like some advice on Unfair dismissal laws

Problem started months ago at work, when people kept changing settings on the PC's we use, namely sounds, volume and display settings

Then last week, someone deleted shortcuts to all our programs we use, along with some programs from other pcs (Scanner programs)

Now, I work from 2 - 10PM, as do two others I work with (1 normal employee, 1 supervisor)
At the time the files were deleted, we were doing non computer work (Manual stuff)

But, the manager who works downstairs, insisted it was us, because we're the only people with a background in IT, even though the evidence at hand showed it was done BEFORE we were on the pc's and doing other work.

So we go to use the PC's at roughly 4PM and find all our programs and links gone, the IT guy on site helps us fix the problems, which were on about 10 pc's alltogether.

So we're dragged into a meeting (me, my colleague and my supervisor) because they had evidence we'd deleted shortcuts on one pc, which was true, my colleague and supervisor removed 3 redundent shortcuts that never worked anyways and we got a lecture on how it was none of our business to be messing with shortcuts.

Today, we get dragged into a very short meeting and are told we're being suspended for 7 days because further events have happened (System files being deleted on other pc's)

So me and my colleage are suspended
They have NO proof we did anything, they have no tracking software of any kind and they have no clue when or how it was done, yet we get suspended anyways, pending an "Investigation"

So with that said, can someone offer any advice?
If we do get fired for suspicion, can we sue?

Ramrod · 13-06-2005, 23:41

Event viewer?

AdamD · 13-06-2005, 23:43

Does the event viewer log file/folder deletions? I don't see anything in my event viewer?

Ramrod · 13-06-2005, 23:44

Quote:

If we do get fired for suspicion, can we sue?

Absolutely.........in fact, atm, you could probably leave and then take them to an industrial tribunal for constructive dismissal.........but I wouldn't recommend that as it's very stressful
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Quote:

Originally Posted by AdamD

Does the event viewer log file/folder deletions? I don't see anything in my event viewer?

I don't know. Check it.

Roy MM · 13-06-2005, 23:45

Restore point, but how they can they accuse anyone without specific evidence is beyond me.

AdamD · 13-06-2005, 23:47

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ramrod

I don't know. Check it.

Yea I did, it only logs system messages and system info, not file modifications/deletions
That was my first guess when everything went wrong, but they said no there was nothing in there

Ramrod · 13-06-2005, 23:48

If you really want to mess things up for them you go to your GP claiming stress and get given antidepressants and then go sick with stress(assuming you get pay when on sick).............then, when you take them to tribunal (assuming you win) you get a sympathetic hearing and more of a pay-out.
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Quote:

Originally Posted by Roy MM

Restore point, but how they can they accuse anyone without specific evidence is beyond me.

Whats listed in restore point?

AdamD · 13-06-2005, 23:51

I doubt they know how to use that restore feature, heh

As for stress, you're not far wrong, what with my dad allmost dying a few times and this rubbish at work, I am stressed :P

Chris W · 14-06-2005, 03:03

A case for constructive dismissal is a hell of a lot harder to prove than unfair dismissal... so stick with it and if you get fired, then get advice about pursuing a claim then.

Are you suspended with/ without pay? It is perfectly reasonable for a compy to suspend people on full pay while an investigation goes on, but i am not sure of the legal position of doing this without pay...

Millay · 14-06-2005, 03:54

I assume, they have no security7 etc on the PC's Iwould personally demand they proveyou are to blame forthis, any company using computers with multiple users should have adequate security set up to stop this from being allowed to happen, its not difficult or expensive to set up.

They should spend a little time sorting out there 'IT Policy' rather than sacking/suspending people over this...
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In other words if this where to go to tribunal, unless they have CCTV/witness's etc.. I cannot see how you could lose..

etccarmageddon · 14-06-2005, 08:36

how pathetic. obviously you have a prankster, mischieft maker etc in your company. they should be taking steps to covertly trap this person not implicate innocent staff. deleting shortcuts etc is hardly earth shattering - the only crime is that valuable time has been lost fixing it.

they should be tightening up things by putting passwords on all the pcs and setting up system restore plus implement a policy where you must logout whenever you leave your pc unattended. problem solved. system files etc can only be deleted if someone is logged in so if you have passwords setup it should stop this also. they should also install CCTV.

enjoy your suspension, make sure you get paid to be at home in the sun and if you dont go and see citizens advice.

Paul · 14-06-2005, 08:44

It's your employers responsibility to secure their terminals correctly, if someone had been deleting shortcuts before now then the Admin of the system should have either secured the basic profile that was being tampered with or should have started tracking deletion events on that profile. There are ways to track activities like that built into Windows XP Pro and Server 2003, all you have to do is set the correct parameters for it.
If your system is not secured correctly then the company (the sys admin to be precise) is at fault here not you. When it first occured they should have checked the permissions on the accounts in use and tightened them up properly. How someone has managed to delete system files I don't know as depending on operating system they should be protected from this.

bdav · 14-06-2005, 09:25

Has the general office been made aware of your dismissal? If not, surely all you have to do is to sit at home and wait for it to happen again?

14-06-2005, 09:30

My advice for what it's worth is to make a note of everything that has happened and in future keep a diary of any other incidents. This will be useful should things go to a tribunal.

If you are stressed and it is work related you should formally advise your employers who then, I understand, have a statutory duty to take steps.

Good luck with it. Sounds like your employer is as petty and pathetic as my last (well the IT director of my last).

ian@huth · 14-06-2005, 10:45

An employer can suspend any employee for any reason they want. They can dismiss any employee for any reason they want. A dismissed employee can put a claim for unfair dismissal before an Employment Tribunal. The claim could be that the employer hadn't followed the correct grievance procedure and / or the offence wasn't a dismissable offence or you were not guilty of commiting the offence. If the Tribunal decides that your dismissal was unfair you will receive compensation and the Tribunal may direct that you should be reinstated. The employer does not have to reinstate you however but if they don't you will be eligible for additional compensation. The problem with unfair dismissal though is that even if a Tribunal finds in your favour potential future employers may take the view that there is no smoke without fire and not consider your application.

You do not actually have to be dismissed to claim unfair dismissal. You can claim constructive dismissal if your employers conduct is such that it makes you resign.