If a tree falls over in a forest.....

Raistlin · 05-06-2005, 23:28

You've all heard the age old question:

Quote:

If a tree falls over in a forest, and nobody is around to hear it, does it make a sound?

Well, I can now give you the answer.

Yes, it does.

The definition of sound is:

Vibrations transmitted through an elastic solid or a liquid or gas, with frequencies in the approximate range of 20 to 20,000 hertz, capable of being detected by human organs of hearing.

As our tree falling would generate the said vibrations it will have made a sound.

Now, if the question had been:

Quote:

If a tree falls over in a forest, and nobody is around to hear it, does it make a noise?

The answer would be No.

The definition of noise is:

The sensation caused by vibrating wave motion that is perceived by the organs of hearing.

You could argue that the answer to this is still Yes, despite that fact that there are no humans about there would still be a perception of the sound on the organs of hearing of any animals that were within range. However those animals would not recognise it as "noise", that is a human word that is used to describe the sensation. As there are no human ears around the answer to this second version of the question must be No.

danielf · 05-06-2005, 23:34

Well, thank you so much for sharing that with us, mr. Philosopher sir

Raistlin · 05-06-2005, 23:39

Quote:

Originally Posted by danielf

Well, thank you so much for sharing that with us, mr. Philosopher sir

I aim to please

danielf · 05-06-2005, 23:48

As a point of order: The second definition of noise, according to Mirriam Webster, is sound.

http://www.m-w.com/cgi-bin/dictionar...onary&va=noise

Incidentally, I thought meaning 'e' bears particular relevance to your original post (bar the reference to 'desired information'.)

Halcyon · 05-06-2005, 23:54

You learn something new each day LOL.

[Goes to chop down next door neighbours tree to conduct experiment]

Raistlin · 05-06-2005, 23:55

Quote:

Originally Posted by danielf

As a point of order: The second definition of noise, according to Mirriam Webster, is sound.

http://www.m-w.com/cgi-bin/dictionar...onary&va=noise

But only in so far as that "Sound" is linked to a human dimension, as there is nobody around.....

Quote:

Originally Posted by danielf

Incidentally, I thought meaning 'e' bears particular relevance to your original post (bar the reference to 'desired information'.)

The cheek

I don't know, you try and bring some culture to this place and what do you get?

Nikko · 05-06-2005, 23:55

The noise is generated, and thus exists, regardless of the presence (or otherwise) of any creatures specifically designed to register or acknowledge its output.

Raistlin · 05-06-2005, 23:58

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nikko

The noise is generated, and thus exists, regardless of the presence (or otherwise) of any creatures specifically designed to register or acknowledge its output.

The sound is generated, the word "noise" however relates to the human perception of the sound.....
__________________

I'm sure I've got a cat in a box somewhere as well.....

danielf · 05-06-2005, 23:59

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nikko

The noise is generated, and thus exists, regardless of the presence (or otherwise) of any creatures specifically designed to register or acknowledge its output.

However, the logic which implies that it may not classed by said creatures (present or not) as noise (or sound) is impeccable.

**Graham M** · 06-06-2005, 00:01

Sound, as i see it is vibrations in the air, the vibrations are picked up by your ear, which sends these signals to your brain which turns the vibrations into a comprehensible signal or sense, which we call sound, without any ears around to do this conversion, there is no sound.

Raistlin · 06-06-2005, 00:04

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zeph

Sound, as i see it is vibrations in the air, the vibrations are picked up by your ear, which sends these signals to your brain which turns the vibrations into a comprehensible signal or sense, which we call sound, without any ears around to do this conversion, there is no sound.

Sound is the vibration of the air (or solid, or liquid, or whatever), noise is the interpretation of that sound by the human organs of hearing (ears if you like).

If there are no humans about the sound cannot have reached their ears and therefore cannot be called noise.....

Nikko · 06-06-2005, 00:06

Quote:

Originally Posted by Raistlin

The sound is generated, the word "noise" however relates to the human perception of the sound.....
__________________

I'm sure I've got a cat in a box somewhere as well.....

noise is a sound thats irritating
__________________

Quote:

Originally Posted by danielf

However, the logic which implies that it may not classed by said creatures (present or not) as noise (or sound) is impeccable.

yes
__________________

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zeph

Sound, as i see it is vibrations in the air, the vibrations are picked up by your ear, which sends these signals to your brain which turns the vibrations into a comprehensible signal or sense, which we call sound, without any ears around to do this conversion, there is no sound.

your logic is almost sound

danielf · 06-06-2005, 00:07

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zeph

Sound, as i see it is <snip>

Not only do we have a resident philosopher, we appear to have a case of synesthesia amongst our members!

Raistlin · 06-06-2005, 00:08

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nikko

noise is a sound thats irritating

And it only gets classified as "irritating" if the sound is registered by an ear (or other organ of hearing") that can apply the descriptive term "irritating" to it.

As it is only humans which understand the term irritating as it applies to noise, it follows that only humans could make the connection between sound and noise in that manner.

There are no humans around so the sound cannot be related to noise.

Therefore it makes a sound, but does not make a noise.

danielf · 06-06-2005, 00:11

Quote:

Originally Posted by Raistlin

And it only gets classified as "irritating" if the sound is registered by an ear (or other organ of hearing") that can apply the descriptive term "irritating" to it.

As it is only humans which understand the term irritating as it applies to noise, it follows that only humans could make the connection between sound and noise in that manner.

There are no humans around so the sound cannot be related to noise.

Therefore it makes a sound, but does not make a noise.

But surely, this means animals feel no pain?