Anyone know anything about home insurance?

[aliferste]

Hello there,

Over crimbo and new year we had a new bathroom put in. The tradesman managed to flood the people downstairs. Now the owner of the company went down and said he would fix their ceiling and that was that. However a few months later he still has not done it.
The guys landlord wants us to give him OUR insurance details to claim on. However we are not liable as it was the tradesman that caused the problem.

I contacted my lawyer (we are selling our flat) and he says that we should not be giving our details out to anyone as our insurance does not cover him downstairs.
I told this to the landlord and he got incredibly annoyed saying that "if that was the way I wanted to play it then fine" he would be getting his lawyer to contact me

The problem is that the landlord is having problems getting the tradesman to come out and do the work.....but I think that it all dealings should be through the landlord and the tradesman and should have nothing to do with me.....is that correct?

I reckon he wants to claim for a whole new kitchen on our insurance.....but I dont think that my insurance would pay out anyway!!

Allso should the guy downstairs not be getting in contact with his insurance company who would get in touch with my insurance company

What do you guys think?

[Marge]

Well, the tradesman who did your job SHOULD have insurance to cover him so he should either sort out the problems himself or give the people concerned his insurance details for them to claim. Far as I can see nothing to do with you......

[homealone]

usual disclaimer, I am no expert at this, but it seems that both the downstairs tenant & the landlord are of the impression contents insurance works like car insurance - afaik it doesn't.

There is no claim that can be made against your insurance, as your contents were not damaged - the liabilty of your insurance company is solely to you, not to any third party.

The redress the other tenants have is with their insurance company & will entitle them to replacement of any items belonging to them, that were damaged as a result of the flood.

Similarly the landlord will need to pursue his own claim, either with his own insurers, or through the tradesmans public liability insurance (assuming self employed).

[aliferste]

Right, so I should hold my ground then!!

I have a funny feeling that they do not have house insurance downstairs and that is why they want to claim off mine!!

[andygrif]

I think you should get in touch with your insurance company and explain the whole situation to them, asking what what they would like to do. They may wish to get a pre-emptive stike in saying that they are contacting the landland to state they have no liability over the work and that he should contact the insurer of the tradesman.

However if you're saying that the work was carried out on your premises and that another property was damaged as a result then you are liable. It would then be up to the insurance company to claim against the tradesman who messed up.

[goldoni]

While I stand to be corrected, you had some work done in your flat that caused damage to the flat bellows ceiling. Put yourself in their position, what would you do? In their position. As far as I understand you should have notified your insurance of the damage to the flat below when it first happened. I would if I were you contact your insurance company and give them the information and let them sort it out. The person below should also be contacting their insurance and they may just meet in the middle.

Hope that makes sense and you get the problem sorted.

The builder should be covered under his public liability insurance but as the damage was caused from water coming from your property, the guy below could, presumably, make a claim against you. If he did your insurers would then look to make a claim against the builder. I'd guess your best bet is to contact your insurance company and see what they say. If the builder didn't have public liability cover, it could be messy.

[SOSAGES]

talking of home insurance - i just got mine though egg and it seemed cheap (for now)

[orangebird]

Originally Posted by homealone

usual disclaimer, I am no expert at this, but it seems that both the downstairs tenant & the landlord are of the impression contents insurance works like car insurance - afaik it doesn't.

There is no claim that can be made against your insurance, as your contents were not damaged - the liabilty of your insurance company is solely to you, not to any third party.

The redress the other tenants have is with their insurance company & will entitle them to replacement of any items belonging to them, that were damaged as a result of the flood.

Similarly the landlord will need to pursue his own claim, either with his own insurers, or through the tradesmans public liability insurance (assuming self employed).

Not quite. For example, a friend of mine was walking his dog. The dog ran out into the road in front of a car. The dog not only lived but (being rather a solid little chap) made quite a lot of damage to the bumper and valance of the car, and my friend had a £700 repair quote to honour until he was advised that he could (and did!!) claim in thorugh his home insurance....

Still, in this case I would agree that the tradesmans insurance should cover the damage, not aliferstes...

[danielf]

Originally Posted by orangebird

Not quite. For example, a friend of mine was walking his dog. The dog ran out into the road in front of a car. The dog not only lived but (being rather a solid little chap) made quite a lot of damage to the bumper and valance of the car, and my friend had a £700 repair quote to honour until he was advised that he could (and did!!) claim in thorugh his home insurance....

Still, in this case I would agree that the tradesmans insurance should cover the damage, not aliferstes...

That would be the case if he has a combined home contents/liability insurance. I don't think you'd be able to claim that on just a home contents insurance

Edit: The dog's damage that is. I also think Aliferste should look at the tradesman's insurance

[Rob]

For a start, there should be two aspects of insurance cover on house / flat.
1) Buildings Insurance - this covers the structure (roof, walls, foundations etc) and built in fixtures and fittings that are part of the property - bathroom suite, kitchen fittings etc. Carpets and similar floorcoverings are removable and so not covered normally by buildings insurance.
2) Contents Insurance - this covers the removable possessions in the property - sofas, beds, books, carpets and curtains, appliances, etc

You then have to check the insurance policy to identify what losses are insured, and what excesses might apply. For buildings cover usual perils are damage by subsidence, fire, flood, storm. Escape of water may be covered. Contents cover may provide for theft, fire, flood and such like.

Many policies will have extensions to the policy for accidental damage. However you may find that when major building works are in progress, insurers want notification up front, as they know their risks can increase.

In law, as the work was carried out in your flat, and the resultant damage that occurred was from something "escaping" from your flat, you would be responsible, but then would expect to offset that against an insurer. Any responsible tradesman should have public liability insurance, thus you should be able to get him to claim on that.

To complicate things, in most buildings where there is more than one occupant, whilst each insures their own contents, it is usual for the buildings cover to be aranged and held jointly. Possibly this is done by the freeholder, who then claims the premium back from the leaseholders. However damage to the ceilings in the flat below would in the first instance be repaired under the buildings policy, and those insurere would then looks to your tradesman to reimburse them from his public liability cover.

[SMHarman]

Being as nothing of yours is damaged and needed to be claimed for you have no need to divulge your insurance details - yet.

Downstairs should claim on his contents insurance for anything damaged that is covered by the contents policy, and on the building insurance policy (probably shared by the leaseholders and held by the freeholder / managing agent) for the structural damage (roof, walls, kitchen cabinets etc).

When those claim forms are filled out there is a section asking whether there are any other policies that may be claimed on / other people that are liable. Downstairs should put the name of your tradesperson on that form in that box.

It is then up to the insurance company to
a) fix the problems with his property - restitution not betterment (unless the policy is new for old)
b) decide what action to take to recover costs from your tradesperson.

So really you should give downstairs your trades persons name and address and that is the end of your liability.

You may also have legal cover on your home policy (normally a £10-£15 addon that you get by default) - call them to confirm this is the action to take.

Also if you do get involved, your home policy has a significant level of third party liability cover that will cover this type of claim.

[punky]

As far as I see it, its really nothing to do with you. The tradesman was working on your bathroom, which was his work area. He is covered there under his firm's public indemnity insurance. The fact that his boss went downstairs and agreed to sort it out, is very much an admission of guilt on their part.

The firm caused the damage and its upto them to put it right satistifactorily. That would mean downstairs sueing the building company, to get the repairs, id need be. Certainly don't give them your insurance details. If they want to claim on their own, and then retrieve the cost back, that's upto them, but not your bother. I doubt your insurance company would even entertain the quote anyway... Insurance companies never want to pay out as it is...

If I was you, i'd go downstairs, explain it all sympathetically, and offer to to help them out with going to court and making sure the buggers cough up. He should be a lot nicer to you after he realises you are trying to help him.

[Janusian]

Not a lot of people realise this, but your Home Insurance includes a section for public liability, which effectively covers you for claims made against you for negligent actions. It excludes acts arising from your occupation, or use of a motor vehicle as these should have more specific insurance. An example of a valid claim would be you scratching a car as you walked past, or knocking over someone whilst out jogging.

This particular instance is a bit more complicated as there are three potential insurances that could cover the loss.

The first port of call would be the Tradesmans insurance. He should have public liability insurance which covers him against such negligence. As it was his fault he was the 'proximate cause' of the loss.

Secondly you would have the building insurance of the block of flats. This would have cover for liability for losses arising from the use of the buildings, which would normally extend to include permanent fixtures and fittings

Thirdly you have your home insurance as mentioned above.

My advice would be notify your Home Insurers, as you would have a duty to do so under your policy, but to continue to push back on liability as it was not your fault. Provide the name and address of the contractor to the person who has suffered loss. If you do get letters from the third parties solicitor, do not answer them but pass them on to your own insurance company.

What may end up happening is that your insurers may deal with the claim, but then subrogate back against the 'proximate cause' in this case the plumber.

[aliferste]

Right, great!!

Thankyou all for your advice. I think what I need to do is contact my insurance company for a bit of advice. I was a bit wary of contacting them as insurance compainies can be a bit wary of phoning asking for advice.....been down that route before!!

It was the whole, him wanting my insurance details that was getting me. Not his insurance comany contacting me or anything!!

The landlord guy just seems shady!