Builders , Why ...

[bob_a_builder]

Are they allowed to get away with running their business with your/our cash.

After seeing yet another watchog type thing, where builder leaves punter part way thru the job, house in ruins, but has spent all the cash.

Why are they not made to run on a proper business footing, i.e. you pay them when AND IF the job is finished and upto spec.
Rather than the 'I just need £600 to buy the tiles' kind of operation they all(?) seem to run

They should borrow the money from bank etc like any other business

Why do we let them get away with it ?

[Mike]

Originally Posted by bob_a_builder

Are they allowed to get away with running their business with your/our cash.

After seeing yet another watchog type thing, where builder leaves punter part way thru the job, house in ruins, but has spent all the cash.

Why are they not made to run on a proper business footing, i.e. you pay them when AND IF the job is finished and upto spec.
Rather than the 'I just need £600 to buy the tiles' kind of operation they all(?) seem to run

They should borrow the money from bank etc like any other business

Why do we let them get away with it ?

I recently had an extention built and we agreed staged payments throughout the job.

When footing done / Up the first floor level / Roof on / Internal works / Final payment when I was happy ....which I was

Worked really well

[Chimaera]

Yes - and go by recommendation too - if a builder has had satisfied customers in the (recent) past, that's the best indication I think. Worked for me, anyway!

Originally Posted by bob_a_builder

Are they allowed to get away with running their business with your/our cash.

After seeing yet another watchog type thing, where builder leaves punter part way thru the job, house in ruins, but has spent all the cash.

Why are people stupid enough to pay up front?

Why are they not made to run on a proper business footing, i.e. you pay them when AND IF the job is finished and upto spec.
Rather than the 'I just need £600 to buy the tiles' kind of operation they all(?) seem to run

It is up to the client You to set the terms of the contract or to use a standard contract such as JCT/ICE etc.

On large jobs it is unreasonable to expect a contractor to finance the whole thing. He should be stage payments with each a percentage of the value of the contract payed at each stage with percentage also held for retention purposes

They should borrow the money from bank etc like any other business

Really

Why do we let them get away with it ?

If you do then that's your own fault. People have to take responsibility for their own stupidity. The whole world is out there to take advantage of such people, not just unscrupulous builders.

[Rob]

Originally Posted by bob_a_builder

Are they allowed to get away with running their business with your/our cash.

<snip>

They should borrow the money from bank etc like any other business

Why do we let them get away with it ?

Many builders have experienced the exact opposite, with large and small clients, who proove to be slow or non payers. The builder does end up financing the job, even with stage payment clauses, If the payments are late, the builder still has to pay up on time for materials, wages etc, so can take a real hammering.

If payments are made after the work, the client will pay more for the job as the cost of financing it should be built into the price.

Bear in mind that most of the pay me for materials guv type builder is the cash in hand smaller guy, who can also be trying to keep their tax bills down, by hiding some of their income. In turn for many, whilst a tax dodge, it can be a way of getting the job done cheaper.

As said above, much of this comes out of trust, and for that you need to know the persons involved, ideally by recommendation.

[wolfmanjack]

What do you NOT pay for in advance?



When I go on holiday I have to pay for this up front, when I shop at Sainsbury’s I have to pay before I take the food away and eat it, when I travel on the train I have to pay before I travel, when I go to the cinema I have to pay before I watch the film..............

[Mike]

Originally Posted by MovedGoalPosts

Many builders have experienced the exact opposite, with large and small clients, who proove to be slow or non payers. The builder does end up financing the job, even with stage payment clauses, If the payments are late, the builder still has to pay up on time for materials, wages etc, so can take a real hammering.

If payments are made after the work, the client will pay more for the job as the cost of financing it should be built into the price.

Bear in mind that most of the pay me for materials guv type builder is the cash in hand smaller guy, who can also be trying to keep their tax bills down, by hiding some of their income. In turn for many, whilst a tax dodge, it can be a way of getting the job done cheaper.

As said above, much of this comes out of trust, and for that you need to know the persons involved, ideally by recommendation.

Totally agree with your final paragraph.....my builder said trust me and I will trust you to pay me. Any problems tell me as you see them and I will correct them. I paid him in cash and he was recommended to me. Remember the cheapest is not always the best !

Originally Posted by wolfmanjack

What do you NOT pay for in advance

Labour.



I get paid in my job, monthly, in arrears. A lot of other people will be paid weekly in arears.

I don't pay my window cleaner in advance!

I pay my mechanic after he has done the work

Contractors that work for may company are paid on completion

[Escapee]

Many builders claim money up front, but in fact have accounts with suppliers. The one who lived next door to my parents, did a job for someone living opposite and said "I wouldn't rip you off, or do a bad job cos I live on your doorsptep"

He did rip them off and do a bad job, he claimed money upfront for the materials to put a new roof on the house. He obtained the supplies on his account, materials were delivered and he went bankrupt. The local roofing centre involved were owed £37k by this builder, as well as other building merchants being owed money.

I saw all the bankrupcy papers, and his wife was claiming for unpaid secretarial expenses and the house had been put into her mothers name!

Then again builders are like many other companies that get stuff up front without ever paying, ntl and the millions of pounds worth of orders that they took delivery of when they knew they were close to bankrupcy but denying it, is a prime example

[SMHarman]

Originally Posted by Pierre

Labour.

I get paid in my job, monthly, in arrears. A lot of other people will be paid weekly in arears.

I don't pay my window cleaner in advance!

I pay my mechanic after he has done the work

Contractors that work for may company are paid on completion

In Europe we have a very paternalistic relationship with our employers and as such trust them to pay us monthly - the US hire / fire culture has meant that they have to pay two weekly (26 times a year) as their employees are less willing to accept the credit risk.

Window cleaners - dunno

Mechanic - yes you do, but I bet he won't give you your car back until you have paid - it's called security.

Contractors are paid on completion. Well that probably depends on the size of the job. Anything over a week / month and stage payments will enter into the equation, any significant fit out work by a contractor will probably require the itemes fitted to be paid for prior to / very soon after fitting.

My building work like someone else above had payments at footings / Walls / Roof / Internals / Completion and a retention to make sure the snaggings got fixed (they never did - I still have the retention).

[zoombini]

I once paid up front to have a car repaired.
Never again, it turned out to be a long nightmare.

Now I'm about to get fitted wardrobes at a cost of over £2500, and I'm NOT being asked to pay anything up front.

Which to me sounds excellent & helps me trust that the guy will do a good job. (else he don't get paid).

[Nidge]

Simple solution never pay for anything until it's finished to your satisfaction. Any builder who says he can start straightaway aviod avoid avoid.

[zoombini]

Mine has been busy for several months now, it's very hard to tie him down to a time slot.