Secondary school behaviour

Aragorn · 07-03-2005, 15:31

A question aimed mainly at our resident teachers & teenagers.

My eldest started secondary school last Sept. He's quite bright (straight fives at SAT's) and we went for a local state school with pretty reasonable results (at least the year before he started).

Problem is he gets frustrated by the attitude of a minority of his class and the lack of control some of the teachers have. In some of the classes it sounds like very little work is achieved because the teacher spends the whole time trying to control the troublesome elements. Even in Maths where he has been 'top-setted' some of the rowdy element have also been put into the top set.

It's even got to the stage where (he says) one of the teachers asked the class why they don't behave better like <my son>! What better way to hack off a 12 yo than hold him up as a shining light, ready to be bullied down

Is there a general problem across the state system of rowdy children disrupting those that want to learn, or are we likely to be able to find a teaching 'nirvana'?
If there is such a thing, how do we find it?
Should we expect the school to able to do something about it?
Is there less of a problem in private schools? We thought about the local Catholic boys school but were not convinced about the ethos of the school (we are not Catholic, but they select children from any faith).

TIA

07-03-2005, 15:39

Quote:

Originally Posted by Aragorn

A question aimed mainly at our resident teachers & teenagers.

My eldest started secondary school last Sept. He's quite bright (straight fives at SAT's) and we went for a local state school with pretty reasonable results (at least the year before he started).

Problem is he gets frustrated by the attitude of a minority of his class and the lack of control some of the teachers have. In some of the classes it sounds like very little work is achieved because the teacher spends the whole time trying to control the troublesome elements. Even in Maths where he has been 'top-setted' some of the rowdy element have also been put into the top set.

It's even got to the stage where (he says) one of the teachers asked the class why they don't behave better like <my son>! What better way to hack off a 12 yo than hold him up as a shining light, ready to be bullied down

Is there a general problem across the state system of rowdy children disrupting those that want to learn, or are we likely to be able to find a teaching 'nirvana'?
If there is such a thing, how do we find it?
Should we expect the school to able to do something about it?
Is there less of a problem in private schools? We thought about the local Catholic boys school but were not convinced about the ethos of the school (we are not Catholic, but they select children from any faith).

TIA

In your particular case have you discussed the issues you raise with (a) the teachers concerned. (b) the Headteacher or (c) a school governor. If so what was their response.

Aragorn · 07-03-2005, 15:43

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gogogo

In your particular case have you discussed the issues you raise with (a) the teachers concerned. (b) the Headteacher or (c) a school governor. If so what was their response.

Parents evening coming up in a week or so. Just gathering input from the CF first.

Ramrod · 07-03-2005, 16:02

Quote:

Is there a general problem across the state system of rowdy children disrupting those that want to learn, or are we likely to be able to find a teaching 'nirvana'?
If there is such a thing, how do we find it?

If you can, send him to private school.

nffc · 07-03-2005, 16:17

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ramrod

Quote:

Is there a general problem across the state system of rowdy children disrupting those that want to learn, or are we likely to be able to find a teaching 'nirvana'?
If there is such a thing, how do we find it?

If you can, send him to private school.

Agreed but I think it's just that 12-15 is a funny age for most kids really.

07-03-2005, 16:22

Quote:

Originally Posted by Aragorn

Parents evening coming up in a week or so. Just gathering input from the CF first.

Rather than wait it might be better to raise your concerns now. Remember, that Parents evenings are attended by many like you and time may not be sufficient and you may get a rushed response.

Most teachers are only too happy to talk to parents.

**Maggy J** · 07-03-2005, 16:41

Quote:

Originally Posted by Aragorn

Is there a general problem across the state system of rowdy children disrupting those that want to learn, or are we likely to be able to find a teaching 'nirvana'?
If there is such a thing, how do we find it?
Should we expect the school to able to do something about it?

TIA

Yes,yes and yes...
The second one could be as simple as going approaching the school.However in the long run I reckon anyone who can afford private should do so.Mind be careful because I've heard of two private schools that have just closed mid term...Without being able to return any school fees

Unfortunately there are a small element of bright kids(usually boys) that aren't really keen to work and are entirely disaffected.These are the ones the school regards as redeemable(unlike the ones who have a lower ability and are far more likely to find themselves excluded).Not fair I know but that's the reality.Just keep complaining and if his education is affected see if he can have extra mentoring lessons provided.Most schools have such 'clubs' these days.

Sorry I can't be more helpful.

Halcyon · 07-03-2005, 17:09

I know what your son is going through becuase I too remember being in that situation. I wanted to work and instead of being able to carry on teaching the lesson, the teacher would have to tell the other kids off, and the lesson would degrade from there on.

I actually remember a Science teacher who decided to transform her lesson into a dating game with a host and audience which played on getting the chemicals together. Anyway, the point is, it was so childish that all the kids loved it as it was simple. I wanted to be doing more propper work and found it ridiculous when we were meant to be doing GCSE year eleven work. The kids that disrupt the class just spoil it for all those that wish to work and get good grades.

Its very annoying and I felt really fustrated at times.
I'd try and ask if maybe those kids could get put into a different set or your child moved into a higher set where there is less disruption.

Raise the point at one of the Parents and governers evenings and definately speak to the head teacher and see what he/she has to say about it all.

07-03-2005, 18:42

Yes, the problem is there and in my experience at school it has gotten worse, the way the staff are treated by the year below us was quite shocking. It's very hard to do well or get down to work when there are chavs giving cheek to the teachers and being a nuisance. It took about 15 minutes for the teacher to calm the class down before anything was actually taught, which is a huge waste of time. I don't think most pupils actually had the incentive to learn or succeed; school to them is about enjoying yourself. Which is why people like that should be kicked out. If you wanted to do well and work hard then you had to not care in the slightest about your 'image' towards the chavs (80% of my classmates were chavs, even though I was in the top sets), because anyone who works hard and actually doesn't try and make a fool out of the teacher on a regular basis is branded a geek so many talented people don't even try, which is a shame. Luckily enough, I didn't give a **** about this and tried my hardest. I wasn't bullied or anything because they knew I didn't care what they thought but many people were constantly harassed and so didn't try. It is a hard place to be if you want to do something with your life. But yeah, anyway, that was my school. And if I ever have children you can bet your bottom dollar I'll send them to a private school even if I have to work hard for the money.
__________________

(This was a catholic school also, by the way)

nffc · 07-03-2005, 18:46

Quote:

Originally Posted by Diamond

Yes, the problem is there and in my experience at school it has gotten worse, the way the staff are treated by the year below us was quite shocking. It's very hard to do well or get down to work when there are chavs giving cheek to the teachers and being a nuisance. It took about 15 minutes for the teacher to calm the class down before anything was actually taught, which is a huge waste of time. I don't think most pupils actually had the incentive to learn or succeed; school to them is about enjoying yourself. Which is why people like that should be kicked out. If you wanted to do well and work hard then you had to not care in the slightest about your 'image' towards the chavs (80% of my classmates were chavs, even though I was in the top sets), because anyone who works hard and actually doesn't try and make a fool out of the teacher on a regular basis is branded a geek so many talented people don't even try, which is a shame. Luckily enough, I didn't give a **** about this and tried my hardest. I wasn't bullied or anything because they knew I didn't care but many people were constantly harassed and so didn't try. It is a hard place to be if you want to do something with your life. But yeah, anyway, that was my school. And if I ever have children you can bet your bottom dollar I'll send them to a private school even if I have to work hard for the money.
__________________

(This was a catholic school also, by the way)

Sounds bad- we were sure that when we were first years, we were never as bad as the last lot of first years (7 years later), the standards of discipline and lack of respect have definitely gone down.

And we couldn't really blame chavs at our school either, because there weren't any...

07-03-2005, 19:22

The old "can't you be like...." line, I got that a few times and it got me a BAD rep by some students (that's how it ended up in my being bullied through out high-school).

I used to be bright, until the bullying kept dragging me down (I still get it at college, but not physical, as they know I would smack them in the mouth).

snodvan · 07-03-2005, 19:50

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gogogo

Rather than wait it might be better to raise your concerns now. Remember, that Parents evenings are attended by many like you and time may not be sufficient and you may get a rushed response.

Most teachers are only too happy to talk to parents.

Totally agree - see the school/ teachers NOW (or write) and say that you would like an answer soon so that you can discuss their reply at the parents eveing. Personally I find the Year Head is often the best contact.

allieyoung666 · 07-03-2005, 20:17

I think you need to be going to the school and having a word, as that is not on at all. Me and my twin are both bright and one day the teacher singled me out. From that day on I was bullied, it knocked my confidence and self estem and to be honest I have never got over it. I suffer from depression and I have done since the age of 12 and my parents blamed the teacher. So yes please go and see the head, you need to sort this out now. Some teachers could not care less I do not mean you incogintias!!!!! But their attitiudes make me sick. My eldest son who is 8 is in the advanced calss at maths and he got teased, but I soon sorted that out!

**Maggy J** · 07-03-2005, 20:31

The quickest way to deal with bullying is to go up to the school or to be constantly on the phone to the head of year.It's what I did when my son was bullied.Mind the fact I was a teacher gave me a certain clout as well.Not available to all I'm sorry to say.

I can only say that teachers try their best these days to sort out bullies but when one is being 'bullied' by the students one's self it is hard to sort it.There are too many parents who won't allow little Jonny to be punished in anyway.

Now I can't even keep a child at break times or for a short while after school while 'we' discuss their bad behaviour UNLESS I book it in advance with a letter home.That takes at least a week and by that time little Jonny has had several more lessons with me and has completely forgotten the reason why he has detention.

That instant 10 minutes at the end of the day was so useful! Delayed punishment does not work.

nffc · 07-03-2005, 20:42

Quote:

Originally Posted by Incognitas

Now I can't even keep a child at break times or for a short while after school while 'we' discuss their bad behaviour UNLESS I book it in advance with a letter home.That takes at least a week and by that time little Jonny has had several more lessons with me and has completely forgotten the reason why he has detention.

That instant 10 minutes at the end of the day was so useful! Delayed punishment does not work.

You've gotta be joking- although sadly I don't think you are.

In my opinion, that is absolutely ridiculous: and furthermore, I don't think if I was a teacher I'd be able to help myself not to give little Jonny a *******ing for his own sake if nothing else.

Political correctness gone totally insane. No wonder we have chavs and a distinct lack of discipline in kids.