Was it worth the risk?

[Rob]

Cycling home from from the pub this evening I see somebody sprawled in the road. Fine I stop to do the good samaritan thing as I am fairly well versed in first aid. The bloke is sort of in the recovery position, unconcious, breathing just, and I can see a nasty graze on his backside as if he had bit hit by a car. He cannot be roused. Someone else on scene calls an ambulance.

I monitor him in his uncounsious state. Suddelnly a female turns up all panic stricken who has to be pushed away as we dont know what has happenned yet she is trying to shake and move him (concern for spinal injury). However he does rouse suddenly and rolls on his back. That's great as breifly I can just get a moment of attention enough to decide that he may have feeling in his arms, but maybe not in his legs based on his inchoerent response. Then he lapses back into uinconciousness. Should I roll him back into the recovery position - no I suspect spinal injury. But that jepordises his ability to breath.

Although I try to maintain an airway he is struggling to breath. Eventually despite risking tilting his head to open the airway, his hasn't visibly or aidibly breathed for over 30 seconds. Far too long. I start mouth to mouth, (but have no barriers) which makes him gasp for breath. OK. He continues to struggle for breath until the ambulance arrives a few minutes later.

As the ambulance crew start to treat him he gradually starts to come round a bit. But he then starts to resist and thrashes around (not especially uncommon with someone who has had a few drinks and looses awareness. However despite a good hold on him he does bang his head on the raod hard enough to cause bleeding. I'm holding him and have no gloves, so my hands do get covered. Eventually he is got onto a spinal board and carted away.

Now I start thinking. What could I have caught? HIV, Hepitis? I know nothing of this idiot, the partner who turned up had a very Irish accent so they are probably travellers (knowing the general area).

It then transpires, speaking to the police that have now arrived that this idot tried to stop a cab, threatened a driver who tried to dirve off but the idot was holding on and got pulled over. The cab driver didnt stop, for fear of his safety (the threats had involved a broken bottle, now recovere from the scene), but went straight to his nearby office, to notify police. Apparently as this idot has arrived at hospital he is aware enough that he is now refusing any treatment, yet he was completely out of it at the scene when I found him. That's excessive drink for you.

So the real crux of this is, have I put myself at risk? Could I have caught anything from this worthless piece of low life? Was it worth it, and perhaps most importantly if something similar happened would I, or even you get stuck in to help?

[kronas]

sadly it is the way of the world, i certainly commend you for using your trained abilitys in first aid, even if you did not know this guy was a complete and utter ******.

it was your own instinct to help a person who was in need, i do believe people should help each other more in the world.

as to whether or not you should have helped him i would have said yes, if anyone is in that type of position then you have done the right thing, no one did know the real story (until later) but you did the honourable thing, even if it did turn out that the guy was an arse.....

[basa]

I also commend you for your actions. But I have to think it was perhaps a tad foolhardy. I don't think I would ever give mouth to mouth without using some sort of barrier (tube or something).

Also it could have been a con and got you mugged initially.

Sadly this is the way of the world these days.

You should rest assured that the diseases you mention are still quite rare and your chances of contracting anything a very low.

[dilligaf1701]

Originally Posted by MovedGoalPosts

So the real crux of this is, have I put myself at risk? Could I have caught anything from this worthless piece of low life? Was it worth it, and perhaps most importantly if something similar happened would I, or even you get stuck in to help?

You definately put yoursef at risk.

If it was worth it is your choice

I'd have done the same thing (but I have a face shield on my keyring) Also if I didn't 'get stuck in' in theory when the person found out I teach first aid they could sue me for not doing it if you see what I mean.... But I would anyway.

[Rob]

Yep if I'd had any barriers with me I'd have used them. Unfortunately I was just in trousers and T shirt. It's not something you expect, even if you've done the training. You know you should have barriers, there's none available. Somebody needs to act. What do you do

Bottom line, the bloke is lying in the middle of the road, you've got an audience (it's amazing how many people come out of the woodwork in a street, that was empty a moment before), including the bloke's hysterical partner, there's a bit of pressure to get on with it.

However I will looks at some means of ensuring I have barriers on me for the future (car's OK I have a first aid kit in that): Dillingaf1701, is that a holder or something you bought from somewhere? I've seen large mouth /nose masks, available, but nothing smaller and more portable.

[Bifta]

Originally Posted by MovedGoalPosts

Yep if I'd had any barriers with me I'd have used them. Unfortunately I was just in trousers and T shirt. It's not something you expect, even if you've done the training. You know you should have barriers, there's none available. Somebody needs to act. What do you do

Bottom line, the bloke is lying in the middle of the road, you've got an audience (it's amazing how many people come out of the woodwork in a street, that was empty a moment before), including the bloke's hysterical partner, there's a bit of pressure to get on with it.

However I will looks at some means of ensuring I have barriers on me for the future (car's OK I have a first aid kit in that): Dillingaf1701, is that a holder or something you bought from somewhere? I've seen large mouth /nose masks, available, but nothing smaller and more portable.

What you did was pretty admirable, and as mentioned, a bit foolhardy, however, as also mentioned the chances of you contracting anything he might have had are unbelievably slim, but, if it bothers you, speak to your doctor.

[dilligaf1701]

Originally Posted by MovedGoalPosts

Dillingaf1701, is that a holder or something you bought from somewhere? I've seen large mouth /nose masks, available, but nothing smaller and more portable.

It's a small pouch that goes on my keyring (I got it from the red cross) - it contains a small bit/sheet of plastic (with a one way valve in it) that you put over the casualty face to do cpr.

http://www.stjohnsupplies.co.uk/prod...2=MM&pg=PPMMXX

[Chris]

Your 'good Samaritan' reference sums up, hopefully, how I would react (basically the way you did). You can't stand around and make judgements about whether someone's life is worth saving while they're expiring before your eyes, so by default I'd say you should help, rather than ignore. If you ignored them, who's to say you're not letting a popular and admired community worker die? You just don't know until afterwards.

[paulyoung666]

i get in trouble off the wife for helping ppl out , now if i saw someone in trouble and didnt help them and they died i know i would feel awful about it , draw your own conclusions from that , as stated previously , you did the right thing , just a little on the foolhardy side

[Maggy J]

I hope if ever I need help at the roadside that there is someone there like MovedGoalPosts to help me.

How awful if there wasn't.

Unless you have open wounds in your mouth and on your hands I very much doubt you are at any risk.However as others pointed out perhaps you should have a check up if you are truly concerned.

[bbwannabe]

is it not possible to breathe through the nose instead of the mouth?

[paulyoung666]

Originally Posted by bbwannabe

is it not possible to breathe through the nose instead of the mouth?

i believe it is

[Bex]

Originally Posted by Incognitas

Unless you have open wounds in your mouth and on your hands I very much doubt you are at any risk.However as others pointed out perhaps you should have a check up if you are truly concerned.

i would say the same thing as coggy here, abrasions are the highest risk.. on you not the patient i mean

i always try to help people, i don't think that people help others enough, so i always try whereever i can. what you did was a very resepctable thing

ISTR there being a technique for "mouth to mouth" where the index and middle fingers are placed over the lips whilst the side of the hand is used to block the nostrils.

That way, unless you've got a cut on the palm side of your hand, your lips are only pressed against your fingers.

[Rob]

Originally Posted by bbwannabe

is it not possible to breathe through the nose instead of the mouth?

Yes this can be done, and is a technique commonly taught where you are trying to maintain rescue breaths whilst trying to swim or tow a person back to shore (you can't do full CPR whilst in the water, as theres nothing to resist the chest compressions, and you can't get the leverage to puch down anyway). The difficulty is getting a good seal over the mouth with the thumb and forefinger, but the theory is that what your head is alongside the person needing breaths the nose gives you somethign to latch on to as you blow. However it still doesn't protect you from the victim's nasties, as the nose is connected to the throat and thus mouth, and so you will still be at risk of whatever is present.

Originally Posted by Graham

ISTR there being a technique for "mouth to mouth" where the index and middle fingers are placed over the lips whilst the side of the hand is used to block the nostrils.

That way, unless you've got a cut on the palm side of your hand, your lips are only pressed against your fingers.

Again the difficulty is getting an effective seal, and also maintaining a clear airway on the victim.

Originally Posted by Dillingaf1701

It's a small pouch that goes on my keyring (I got it from the red cross) - it contains a small bit/sheet of plastic (with a one way valve in it) that you put over the casualty face to do cpr.

http://www.stjohnsupplies.co.uk/pro...c2=MM&pg=PPMMXX

I have seen similar things, but never knew where to get hold of them.

I do find it odd that you can but first aid kits and yet they dont include that sort of basic device, when it's been common practice for years in first aid to teach the use of barriers.

Abroad, you are frequently required to have a first aid kit in your car (even if you don't know how to use it). Other motorists did stop (one had done so to call the ambulance). But did anyone have a first aid kit. Not likely Maybe this should be compulsory, for the small cost involved