Work and Travel

[Mr_love_monkey]

This is an email sent by my company to us all

Dear All,
It has been brought to my attention that some people are being a bit lapse in adhering to the company's travel policy's

Please can I remind you all:
Flights/trains/hotels should be booked as far in advance as possible.
If the cost of a flight/train/hotel is over £100 then X and Y require clearance from a Director.
Travel where possible should be made outside of the core office hours. Sorry, I know that this means early starts and late nights.

Now, I don't have a problem with most of the mail - but the bit about travelling outside of working hours, prompted me to ask 'Does this mean we get time off in leiu' - at which point I was told that it's not 'company policy'...

Is this fair/legal?

[paulyoung666]

not totally sure , what i am wondering about is the fact that most ppl dont get paid or have time allowed for travelling to and from work , or have i got the wrong end of the stick , so to speak

[Mr_love_monkey]

Originally Posted by paulyoung666

not totally sure , what i am wondering about is the fact that most ppl dont get paid or have time allowed for travelling to and from work , or have i got the wrong end of the stick , so to speak

Sorry, not been clear there.
This is in relation to extra travel, i.e. client site visits, travelling to the other office (in scotland - we are based in london) - basically travelling one end of country to the other, to go somewhere other than our normal place of work (as specified in our contract).

[paulyoung666]

Originally Posted by Mr_love_monkey

Sorry, not been clear there.
This is in relation to extra travel, i.e. client site visits, travelling to the other office (in scotland - we are based in london) - basically travelling one end of country to the other, to go somewhere other than our normal place of work (as specified in our contract).

so there is no time off in lieu or pay for it ?????????? , i reckon they are taking the p!ss

[Mr_love_monkey]

Originally Posted by paulyoung666

so there is no time off in lieu or pay for it ?????????? , i reckon they are taking the p!ss

That's what I (and everyone else in the company) think.... but are they allowed to?
I know EU working laws say you can't do over 45 hours a week, but would that include travel?

if you travel on company business they should be paying for your time. If its within core hours then you should get time off in lieu or paid for it.

However where i work we operate the same principle and the view is if your "Salaried" and not on flexitime and nt paid overtime its because your too senior or you get paid a lot, therefore it is "expected". If i have to travel like that then i do a few show days to compensate for it.

[skyblueheroes]

You should get time for it methinks.

[Mr_love_monkey]

Originally Posted by gary_580

However where i work we operate the same principle and the view is if your "Salaried" and not on flexitime and nt paid overtime its because your too senior or you get paid a lot, therefore it is "expected".

No, with us, it's a company wide thing, so some of our implementors who don't earn masses can be out going to sites every single day of the week, travelling in their own time, and having nothing to show for it.

[Escapee]

Originally Posted by Mr_love_monkey

This is an email sent by my company to us all


Now, I don't have a problem with most of the mail - but the bit about travelling outside of working hours, prompted me to ask 'Does this mean we get time off in leiu' - at which point I was told that it's not 'company policy'...

Is this fair/legal?

It depends if the job is salaried or not, look at your contract to see if you are entitled to overtime for anything you work outside your designated hours.
I have been in salaried positions before where pay was good and I almost never had to work extra hours, I did also work for a company that involved lots of hours and a lot of time away from home. They were paying an extremely good salary for the privelidge!

I oftn see jobs with a lot of overseas travel that are paying in my opinion peanuts, I expect a lot of cash for a position that expects me to be away from home.

Check what your contract says?

[paulyoung666]

Originally Posted by Escapee

It depends if the job is salaried or not, look at your contract to see if you are entitled to overtime for anything you work outside your designated hours.
I have been in salaried positions before where pay was good and I almost never had to work extra hours, I did also work for a company that involved lots of hours and a lot of time away from home. They were paying an extremely good salary for the privelidge!

I oftn see jobs with a lot of overseas travel that are paying in my opinion peanuts, I expect a lot of cash for a position that expects me to be away from home.

Check what your contract says?

i get the feeling you are right on this , i would say as well that if you check your contract then you may find the answer , if you do not then it would be time to argue your case with the company

[cookie_365]

Depends on what your contract of employment says.

www.worksmart.org.uk (the TUC's info site) might have something about this but I can't recall.

Suggest you put the ball back in their court & ask them (very nicely) to show you the relevant section of the contract.

[ian@huth]

This cropped up a number of years ago when a fellow employee was involved in a Road Traffic Accident. He had a problem with his insurance which only covered social, domestic, pleasure and travelling to and from his place of business. As he was travelling to a place that was not his usual place of business the insurance company refused to accept the claim. The situation was discussed at length in one of our Managers meetings and the consensus of opinion was that travelling on business to places other than your normal place of work was business use and the company should give insurance cover for that business use and you should be covered by employers liability insurance during that time. Also the time involved was part of the allowed hours under the Working Time Directive unless you had agreed in writing not to be held by the directive. This was how our company viewed the situation and may or may not be correct legally.

[SMHarman]

It's a reasonable request of an employer for you to work the hours of the client you are visiting, this will often be included in your contract, it can look pretty shoddy at the customer end if you are working 10:30 -3 because of travel time, the perception is that the firm is a bunch of slackers (note: perception)

The policy I have seen before for similar situations (in accounting, auditing at clients premises) was that if the journey to the clients took more than 30 minutes more than your usual journey then overtime (or TOIL) was payable. e.g it usually takes you 45 mins from leaving your house to being at your desk at your usual place of work, to leave your house and be at the client 60 mins later - no overtime, 80 minutes later 60 mins overtime paid.

Long Haul as a more junior person I was awarded travel days, one day each way if the journey was over 5 and under 12 hours, 2 days if over 12 hours. These were meant to be used as aclimatisation / jetlag days, e.g flying to Oz to start work on Monday, then leave on Thursday morning (travel day one) Friday PM arrive TD 2, the weekend and be refreshed to start work on Monday. Similarly on the return it meant you could catch up with bills, laundry etc, not be expected back at your desk the minute you touched down.

Nowdays we as a rule split the difference, especially on something like the London Scotland in the example. Leave early enough to be in the office by 10am on Monday and leave at about 3:30 on Friday so you're home at a reasonable time.

The law though, I would think most would be subject to the 45 hr working time reg as a restriction on travel, after all it is included in working time as it is wholly, exclusivly and necessarily for your employer. Looks like they are trying to increase the level of unpaid overtime they are getting out of you all.

[SMHarman]

Originally Posted by Mr_love_monkey

That's what I (and everyone else in the company) think.... but are they allowed to?
I know EU working laws say you can't do over 45 hours a week, but would that include travel?

http://www.dti.gov.uk/er/work_time_regs/wtr2.htm

Working time includes travelling where it is part of the job, working lunches and job-related training.
Working time does not include travelling between home and work, lunch breaks, evening classes or day-release courses.

[Fitzer]

I'd be a bit bothered about working for company that can't spell/punctuate properly. "Policy's" !