Rapture questions

Xaccers · 14-07-2004, 11:56

I'm sure this has been mentioned before, but could someone clarify?

What is the belief with some people who consider themselves to be christians (is that the politically correct way of referring to them?) that Israel and/or Babylon must be in existance for the second comming to take place?

**Chris** · 16-07-2004, 15:36

/bump

Sorry xac, can't believe I missed this one

I'll be happy to have a go at it a bit later.

SOSAGES · 16-07-2004, 16:23

maybe i know nothing but im sure Israel and Babylon are around - babylons in iraq i think but ignore me

**Russ B** · 16-07-2004, 17:35

Depends on what you mean by the second coming. Do you mean the rapture (where Jesus returns to take his followers leaving non-believers behind) or the seven year period later when He returns to rule on earth?

If you mean the rapture, the only 'criteria' shall we say, is that the whole world will have heard His message - whether or not they chose to believe it of course is another matter - by the time it occurs.

If you mean His return at the end of the Tribulation period, yes it is written that Babylon will have been rebuilt.

HTH

Xaccers · 16-07-2004, 22:43

Thanks for that Russ, can you tell me which passages talk about babylon and israel being present?

BBKing · 16-07-2004, 23:00

Quote:

is that the whole world will have heard His message

<bad taste>

Jolly good - as long as there's at least one blind, deaf paraplegic in the world we're safe from dust, ruin and fundamentalists.

</bad taste>

Bifta · 16-07-2004, 23:14

Quote:

Originally Posted by BBKing

<bad taste>

Jolly good - as long as there's at least one blind, deaf paraplegic in the world we're safe from dust, ruin and fundamentalists.

</bad taste>

Heh, not quite, I mean, this is god you're talking about, I'm sure he has way's of communicating other than verbally.

**Russ B** · 17-07-2004, 02:46

Quote:

Originally Posted by Xaccers

Thanks for that Russ, can you tell me which passages talk about babylon and israel being present?

Not sure of the exact verse but have a look in the first few chapters of Revelations.

17-07-2004, 03:15

Quote:

Originally Posted by BBKing

<bad taste>

Jolly good - as long as there's at least one blind, deaf paraplegic in the world we're safe from dust, ruin and fundamentalists.

</bad taste>

More seriously, all the time new people are being born surely that would mean there would be a constant supply of people who could not have heard God's word.

Perhaps that bit was a get out clause on the part of the original writers.

Bifta · 17-07-2004, 11:17

Quote:

Originally Posted by dr wadd

More seriously, all the time new people are being born surely that would mean there would be a constant supply of people who could not have heard God's word.

Perhaps that bit was a get out clause on the part of the original writers.

afaik kids are exempt, being innocents and all.

**Russ B** · 17-07-2004, 11:20

Spot on.

BBKing · 17-07-2004, 11:24

Quote:

afaik kids are exempt, being innocents and all.

[examines infant child creating ruin and havoc around the living room]

Care to rephrase the word 'innocent'?

**Russ B** · 17-07-2004, 11:26

Innocent in God's eyes.....to be too young to understand responsibility.

**Chris** · 17-07-2004, 19:53

Quote:

Originally Posted by Xaccers

I'm sure this has been mentioned before, but could someone clarify?

What is the belief with some people who consider themselves to be christians (is that the politically correct way of referring to them?) that Israel and/or Babylon must be in existance for the second comming to take place?

Some of the prophesies of the end times clearly take place in the Temple at Jerusalem. Since the ancient nation of Israel effectively ended in ca. 70AD, and the temple was destroyed at the same time, it was reasonable for theologians to conclude that both Israel and the temple would have to be restored before the end could happen.

Israel was restored in 1948, Jerusalem was restored in 1967, and the Temple is yet to be restored. Once it is, things ought to conclude rather rapidly.

As for Babylon, it is commonly used in prophesy as a name for a nation or organisation that opposes God's purposes, and not as a literal nation that must be re-established as part of the end times. Some have chosen to interpret 'Babylon' in prophecy as a literal place that will exist and play a part in the events prior to the end of the world in any case. I'm not certain on that point.