The unfairness of work...

[Mr_love_monkey]

Maybe I'm just feeling unfairly treated at the moment, but....

How come developers don't get commission for work done, and salesmen do? - the salesman sells the product which the developer then has to produce - (because usually in true salesman style - they'll answer yes to any question the client asks, and then leave it up to the developers to sort it out)... and at the end of it the salesman walks away with a nice bonus for doing their job, which is to sell things, and the developer gets nothing, for doing their job.

Hardly seems fair if you ask me.

Anyway - end of rant

How come a salesman can sell something that you have to bust a gut to build because they dont allow enough lead time. How come the salesmans cut down lead time to make the sale and forces you to bodge things that cause you grief later. How come the salesman causes you to be saddled with a donkey and spiralling maintenance just because they cut the delivery time and the price just to make the sale that you probably didnt make much money on.

fair??? whats fair got to do with it. The salesman gets paid for chatting, you have to do the work and suffer.

Sympathy rant ended!

[Mr_love_monkey]

Atleast it's not just me that feels like this....

[zoombini]

Its a big boat & there are many in it.

Not to forget that the salesman will sell something, then tell you what it is & how he wants it to be, you will bust a gut making it & then the salesman will say "but I didn't want it like that" & completely change the specification (not that you get a proper one in the first place).

And the salesman drives the latest sports car while you have to put up with the old bangers, the salesman always gets a decent raise every year while you get below inflation insults.

Been there, done that, still damn well doing it !!

[Damien]

But a developer gets paid a lot more in standard salery giving commision simple encorages the salesman to be more motivited in selling

[Mr_love_monkey]

Originally Posted by Damien

But a developer gets paid a lot more in standard salery giving commision simple encorages the salesman to be more motivited in selling

You obviously don't work for the same companies I've worked for...

[Nemesis]

.... and while we're on the subject .... What does a Project Manager actually do ....

[Caspar]

Originally Posted by Damien

But a developer gets paid a lot more in standard salery giving commision simple encorages the salesman to be more motivited in selling

Yeah right, we've past the Y2k bug and people exploiting their COBOL skills!!!

I do agree it's unfair that developers get charged with developing someone's sale, who bust a gut to deliver ontime, obviously part way things get harassed and you have to cut corners

Then they get their commission and you get.... to keep your job!

I understand the complxities of when commission should and should not be used...but when sales people get paid lots and offered commission on top then that plain sucks!

Come on if you're not motivated to makes sales then let's find someone who is!!!!

I find that I have to create something, with only minimal information from sales...and I have to do all the needs analysis donkey work...to allow them to make the bonus!!!

I'd best stop before I march into the Sales room and demand satisfaction!!!!

[Mr_love_monkey]

Originally Posted by Nemesis

.... and while we're on the subject .... What does a Project Manager actually do ....

...well, in one of my companies, a Project Manager, was a salesman that the head of sales was mates with, who wasn't hitting his targets, and was given a nice cushy job that meant he didn't need to worry about targets - he just sold what he could, and 'managed' a project or two

[Caspar]

Originally Posted by Nemesis

.... and while we're on the subject .... What does a Project Manager actually do ....

Part of my job is project management and it is boring as fcuk! Basically, take the job, work out what needs to be done, schedule resources (software, hardware, and people!) then distribute work amongst whoever you need from a pool, if applicable, then track progress on a hourly/daily/weekly basis making sure you can keep your target dates that were either set by you when you processed the job or set by your manager/director or even the customer, making any need adjustments to spec or resources as needed ... and before you deliver to the customer you compare the output with the original spec to see if the development is correct, post all testing!


...something like that anyway!

[zoombini]

I have never heard of a developers job that gets paid more than a salespersons job, in fact now we are expected to be even more qualified with degrees falling out of our backsides & to work for less money & worse conditions than those that sell what we have developed.

As for what do project managers do, well we sould expand that question to a lot of "managers".

[Maggy J]

It does take chutzpah to be a salesm...errr salesperson.I wonder how many times they get "no,not today mate" and manage not to get dispirited?

In the end they must get to the point that they will promise ANYTHING just to get a sale.Then having cut corners on the developers behalf and having got a bonus they just keep going because they have developed the chutzpah to do so.

So if the bonus starts to be more fairly distributed how many salespersons would just give up trying to make any sales?

Seems to me that unless developers want to go out and sell their own products that they are stuck with sales people.

Incog.

[Escapee]

I remember in the earlier ntl/CableTel days, the salesmen always lied to customers to get a sale. I always argued that the salesman should be sent back to face the customer and apologise for telling lies.

Guess what, we had to explain to the customer and put up with them saying

"The salesman told us blah blah blah"

The salesman had his bonus and we would always have to out up with the flak for his lies.

[Paul M]

Originally Posted by Nemesis

.... and while we're on the subject .... What does a Project Manager actually do ....

Turn quick, smooth running, projects into slow, bogged down, disasters.

Originally Posted by Escapee

I remember in the earlier ntl/CableTel days, the salesmen always lied to customers to get a sale. I always argued that the salesman should be sent back to face the customer and apologise for telling lies.

Guess what, we had to explain to the customer and put up with them saying

"The salesman told us blah blah blah"

The salesman had his bonus and we would always have to out up with the flak for his lies.

In the end I got the Belfast Sale's Managers phone number and told the customer to fill their boots. At the same time, if it was'nt on the work order it didnt get done. Though I did threaten one lying b@$t@rd sales rep with physical violence after catching him lying to customers for the nth time.