Top up fees

[Popeye]

I don't see anything wrong with university top up fees


after all why we should subsidise somebody to be a lawyer

so they can fleece us when they become one?

[Ramrod]

Because the lawyer will pay a truckload of tax one day?

[orangebird]

Originally Posted by Popeye

I don't see anything wrong with university top up fees


after all why we should subsidise somebody to be a lawyer

so they can fleece us when they become one?

Not only that - if they become a lawyer, they'll be able to pay of their loans...

I am totally in favour of the fees. Best thing Tony Blair ever thought of

Then we should bring in the case, why should my taxes, after i finish university and am paying off the minimum of £20,000 of debt i am going to be in to pay for my education, pay for other peoples childrens education.

Not everyone is going to be a well paid lawyer you know. By raising the tuition fees, he is going to cripple a lot of people who want to do better in their life.

Just remember, his eductaion was paid for by the government. Why shouldn't mine.

By the way, i have to pay the full load for tuition, fees, parents can't afford to pay that much, and i get the minimum loan, which does not even cover my rent. Thats why to pay for my education, i have to skip lectures and classes, so i can work to afford it. Pathetic

[orangebird]

Originally Posted by col d

Then we should bring in the case, why should my taxes, after i finish university and am paying off the minimum of £20,000 of debt i am going to be in to pay for my education, pay for other peoples childrens education.

Not everyone is going to be a well paid lawyer you know. By raising the tuition fees, he is going to cripple a lot of people who want to do better in their life.

Just remember, his eductaion was paid for by the government. Why shouldn't mine.

By the way, i have to pay the full load for tuition, fees, parents can't afford to pay that much, and i get the minimum loan, which does not even cover my rent. Thats why to pay for my education, i have to skip lectures and classes, so i can work to afford it. Pathetic

Don't take this the wrong way, but try getting a job, paying your stamp for 15 years, barely covering your rent, and being told that although I paid my way my entire adult working life, I get sweet FA from our government such as affordable housing, discounts on council tax, any chance of a state pension by the time I retire etc etc...?

University education is a luxury, not a necessity. You want it, you pay for it.

Originally Posted by orangebird

I am totally in favour of the fees. Best thing Tony Blair ever thought of

I agree, but only because I fully expect him to lose the vote and it prove to be the issue that forces him out of office.

As for the argument about lawyers put by Ramrod, that assumes that they are all going to become that kind of lawyer. What about those that go into public prosecution? Arguably they are providing a valuable service to society, so why should society not pay for that service?

[Ramrod]

Originally Posted by dr wadd

As for the argument about lawyers put by Ramrod, that assumes that they are all going to become that kind of lawyer. What about those that go into public prosecution? Arguably they are providing a valuable service to society, so why should society not pay for that service?

I didn't start the lawyers thing.... ....but thats a good point.

Originally Posted by orangebird

Don't take this the wrong way, but try getting a job, paying your stamp for 15 years, barely covering your rent, and being told that although I paid my way my entire adult working life, I get sweet FA from our government such as affordable housing, discounts on council tax, any chance of a state pension by the time I retire etc etc...?

University education is a luxury, not a necessity. You want it, you pay for it.

So in this Britain, what your saying is, only the rich should be able to get ahead, only the rich should be able to get the education, to get them the good jobs, but widen the gap between rich and poor.

I do sympathise with your situation orangebird, and maybe thats why people do want to go to university, that can get them jobs to pay for the future. Unfortunetly Blair has decided that only people who can afford £3000 per year will be able to do that. If was starting uni looking at £3000 minimum then i would have to think twice

[orangebird]

Originally Posted by col d

So in this Britain, what your saying is, only the rich should be able to get ahead, only the rich should be able to get the education, to get them the good jobs, but widen the gap between rich and poor.

I do sympathise with your situation orangebird, and maybe thats why people do want to go to university, that can get them jobs to pay for the future. Unfortunetly Blair has decided that only people who can afford £3000 per year will be able to do that. If was starting uni looking at £3000 minimum then i would have to think twice

I thought the fee was 'up to' £3k? Not all universities will be charging the maximum...

[Ramrod]

Originally Posted by orangebird

I thought the fee was 'up to' £3k? Not all universities will be charging the maximum...

I was paying £6000+ a year

[Dave Stones]

where i am have said they will be charging £3k a year. thats on top of £3k in housing if you move to the area, on top of £1125 tuition fees if like me you have to pay full amount.

thats on top of food and essential living of about £30 a week

so in the 40 weeks i would be here i would be paying £8000

as opposed to the abuot £6000 i am paying now. its a lot of difference....

[philip.j.fry]

Originally Posted by orangebird

I thought the fee was 'up to' £3k? Not all universities will be charging the maximum...

True, but it's another reason why it's going to create a divide. Popular universities, where courses are oversubscribed will be charging the maximum because they can get it. So admission is less likely to be based on academic qualifications and more on who can afford to pay for it.

I don't think that a university education is a luxury, and whilst not a necessity I think that it is something that should be available for absolutely anyone who wants it not something that should be available to only those who can afford it.

Originally Posted by orangebird

I thought the fee was 'up to' £3k? Not all universities will be charging the maximum...

True, but is that still not enough, what we are being told is, that you will only get into certain uni's (probably the better ones) if you have enough cash. Nothing to do with brains, or anything like that?

Originally Posted by Ramrod

I didn't start the lawyers thing.... ....but thats a good point.

Ah, that'll be me subconsciously merging two posts together. Just as well it wasn`t with anything that could potentially be offensive.

[ntluser]

I think the interesting thing in all this is the assumption that people will want to go to university when top up fees are activated.

A degree is not the gateway to success it used to be. Lots of people have proved that they can earn loads of money without one.

I suspect that the introduction of top up fees is a mechanism to deter people from going to university and thereby to allow the government to reduce spending on Higher Education.

Most of the measures the government has introduced have been aimed at raising cash, because essentially, after all the money they have wasted, they no longer have the funds to finance the manifesto they campaigned on at the election.

Think about all the stealth taxes, the raids on pension funds, the financial punitive measures imposed on business by the Inland Revenue, congestion charges, toll roads, speed cameras and top-up fees. They are all measures designed to screw every last penny out of the public.

Isn't it funny that we managed to live quite comfortably and things worked reasonably well without all these things before.

Funny too, that we don't have enough police, teachers, nurses, doctors, radiographers, firemen, midwives etc. and that most public services are in crisis.

If people don't go to university, I wonder how many other professions will end up being in short supply.

Maybe what we need are better politicians who can make wiser decisions about public spending, without the need to waste vast amounts of money and without the need to create an elitist life style for themselves in the process.