another positive for scotland

[etccarmageddon]

Originally Posted by kronas

....if you want to kill yourself with alcohol and cigarettes then do so by allmeans just dont take me down with you on the smoking aspect

wise words indeed.

[kronas]

Originally Posted by etccarmageddon

wise words indeed.

dont get me wrong im not just thinking about myself but others around me children the elderly who have to put up with smokey enviroments in certain establishments they proceed in to

im all for letting people do what they want to do i discourage smoking and alcohol but ultimately its up to the person on what they do

personally i see no reason to smoke or drink and when i ask people why they do either things i get the answer because 'im addicted' to smoking or because i like to 'drink' and 'socialize' with people pathetic excuses in my view

your doing yourself harm and harming others health aswell

[imback]

Kronas everything harms us, and we all have to die some how, nicotine is a drug, and one of the most addictive, so people smoke as they are chemically dependant on it.

It's funny how smokers are treated as weak while drug addicts are treated with pitty, even by the health service most of the time.

Yet drugs are illegal and treatment is paid for by taxes while smoking covers it's own costs.

[kronas]

Originally Posted by imback

Kronas everything harms us, and we all have to die some how, nicorine is a drug, and one of the most addictive, so people smoke as they are chemically dependant on it.

im not disputing the fact that people are harmed in other ways but a bit of self thought would not go astray i used to get offered cigarettes quite alot but i always said no because i knew it was detrimental to my health as well as others i stood at a distance if smoking was happening around me bowing to peer pressure will only kill you in the long term

Originally Posted by imback

It's funny how smokers are treated as weak while drug addicts are treated with pitty, even by the health service most of the time.

drugs are of diffarent types you might take a pull or use a syringe but they are all addictions again a bit of self control never hurt anyone initially you should say no and stick to it

Originally Posted by imback

Yet drugs are illegal and treatment is paid for by taxes while smoking covers it's own costs.

we are taxed heavily but it has to come from somewhere

[etccarmageddon]

yeah it's a waste of money in my opinion - why not spend it on something that brings pleasure but without the pain.

[kronas]

Originally Posted by etccarmageddon

yeah it's a waste of money in my opinion - why not spend it on something that brings pleasure but without the pain.

dont talk to me about money thats for another thread but i see people these days who buy lots of clothes for no apparent reason except they have become shopoholics the invention of the credit card has made it easier to spend

if you balance your finances correctly spend your money on essential items as well as a bit of fun on the side you should save money taking away the smoking and drinking elements

[imback]

But in society it's not that simple, peopel need to relax and unwind sometimes. Say no to drink, say no to drugs etc etc If we said no to everything that could harm us we'd live alone in a room with nothing in.

It's easy to say you should say no, do you really think heroin addicts wanted to become what they are? It happens people get pulled into these situations in many different ways, never seeing the situation they will end in.

Smoking, and even drugs have their roots in clutures from hunders and some even thousands of years, it's something society accepts, and so has learned how to make money off.

[kronas]

Originally Posted by imback

But in society it's not that simple, peopel need to relax and unwind sometimes. Say no to drink, say no to drugs etc etc If we said no to everything that could harm us we'd live alone in a room with nothing in.

there are other more pleasureable less harmful ways of relaxing listen to some music watch a bit of tv or news meet some freinds have a chat......

Originally Posted by imback

It's easy to say you should say no, do you really think heroin addicts wanted to become what they are? It happens people get pulled into these situations in many different ways, never seeing the situation they will end in.

in my post i said initially ie if you just say no at stage 1 you will not become addicted because you never took the risk

Originally Posted by imback

Smoking, and even drugs have their roots in clutures from hunders and some even thousands of years, it's something society accepts, and so has learned how to make money off.

yes i understand that..... just because something is acceptable does not mean you can go do it no harm done to you or others does it

sure tobacco compaines make there money on smokers but culture does not come in to the equasion because if you know something is harmful to you then you know what to do

i have been surrounded by young smokers as well as some of my family members who smoke and i always said no because i knew it was the right thing and i have never regreted it

[etccarmageddon]

one of my old friends said he wasnt addicted - he said he did it out of enjoyment.

if you look at chocky, coke, pepsi, coffee, tea... they all have addictive ingredients. and I believe recently in the states they have now proved that 'fast food' has addictive qualities. so perhaps, it's wrong to just single out cigs but then with cigs there is a difference - a)if you smoke in a public place you are interferring with other people's health and b)it's (arguablely) a lot more harmful than chocky, coke, pepsi etc...

[darkangel]

Originally Posted by Tricky

Except the NHS spend a fortune on treating the effects of smokers (on both smokers and non-smokers alike).

1.5billion a year is spent on smoking related illness over 10billion is paid in taxes

[imback]

Originally Posted by kronas

in my post i said initially ie if you just say no at stage 1 you will not become addicted because you never took the risk

Yes, and if you looked at my post I said people get drwn into these things in different ways. Not everyone was asked to try it by their friends, some people drink or take drugs to eascape the harsh realities of life, they aren't coping with what has happend to them and need some eascape, and it's drugs or suicide at that point.

Like I said it's easy for someone to say "well they should have said no" but it doesn't work like that in the big wide world does it?

there are other more pleasureable less harmful ways of relaxing listen to some music watch a bit of tv or news meet some freinds have a chat......

More pleasurable than injecting or smoking something that instantly takes aways the worries of life, makes you feel like you are the most powerfull thing in the world and that nothing could harm you? Really, I must get the same CD's as you mate

yes i understand that..... just because something is acceptable does not mean you can go do it no harm done to you or others does it

No I know but my point was, to change something that has been acceptable for hundreds of years takes hundreds of years. Westerners see some religious cultures stupid and pointless, but they have been taught for so long thats some accept them, and some were forced into them and don't even see an alternative.

[kronas]

Originally Posted by imback

Yes, and if you looked at my post I said people get drwn into these things in different ways. Not everyone was asked to try it by their friends, some people drink or take drugs to eascape the harsh realities of life, they aren't coping with what has happend to them and need some eascape, and it's drugs or suicide at that point.

but common sense should prevail your harming yourself i have been in the position of suicidal tendencys but i would never turn to smoking or drugs of any form

i suppose it is diffarent for everyone, people react diffarently to things but you should be incharge of your brain and the ability to distinguish between something that is bad or good

Originally Posted by imback

More pleasurable than injecting or smoking something that instantly takes aways the worries of life, makes you feel like you are the most powerfull thing in the world and that nothing could harm you? Really, I must get the same CD's as you mate

must be the avril music as well as others

after the 'hit' you will come crashing back down to reality and so the cycle continues............

Originally Posted by imback

No I know but my point was, to change something that has been acceptable for hundreds of years takes hundreds of years. Westerners see some religious cultures stupid and pointless, but they have been taught for so long thats some accept them, and some were forced into them and don't even see an alternative.

i did see your point but i merely stated a counter argument towards your previous statement as i will now

cultural diffarences are there for all to see asian people are told not to smoke but some do even when it is against there religion

you cant just dismiss something as a cultural divide that IMO lacks a bit of self originality ie you do what you do and dont follow like sheep after all you could potentially wreck your life and others around you

[etccarmageddon]

Originally Posted by kronas

i suppose it is diffarent for everyone, people react diffarently to things but you should be incharge of your brain and the ability to distinguish between something that is bad or good

you are basing this assumption on the idea that we are all similar and have the same morals/requirements.

logic would suggest that people shouldnt do a lot of things but people have 'choice' and some make an active decision to choice harmful pleasures/substances and choice to defy logic or rebel against 'authority' or whatever. as long as there is choice there will be people doing things that you will puzzle as to 'why'.

this is also part of 'freedom' - something that people abuse in my opinion when they inflict their 2nd hand fumes on non willing participants. or take drugs when they have responsibilities such as children.

[kronas]

Originally Posted by etccarmageddon

you are basing this assumption on the idea that we are all similar and have the same morals/requirements.

no im giving feedback based on the way i think obviously not everyone is the same as i mentioned before

Originally Posted by etccarmageddon

logic would suggest that people shouldnt do a lot of things but people have 'choice' and some make an active decision to choice harmful pleasures/substances and choice to defy logic or rebel against 'authority' or whatever. as long as there is choice there will be people doing things that you will puzzle as to 'why'.

correct

Originally Posted by etccarmageddon

this is also part of 'freedom' - something that people abuse in my opinion when they inflict their 2nd fumes on non willing participants. or take drugs when they have responsibilities such as children.

yes when there are families involved things can really get deep........

im only expressing my views and thought process i know others do things there way but you have to stop and think about your actions

[imback]

Originally Posted by kronas

but common sense should prevail your harming yourself i have been in the position of suicidal tendencys but i would never turn to smoking or drugs of any form

i suppose it is diffarent for everyone, people react diffarently to things but you should be incharge of your brain and the ability to distinguish between something that is bad or good

But do you think someone that has just lost everything they ever had is in a position to think life has anymore to offer them than drugs? I mean look at most drug addicts they can be grouped into socially or economically deprived people most of the time. Ill educated, abused or lacking money to live as they would like to.

I mean to the man sleeping in door ways in the middle of winter because he has nowhere else to go sees his bottle of cheap vodka as a way of forgetting his life for a few hours, it's not always black and white.

It's easy for me and you to say heroin is not the answer to peoples problems but neither of us (been a positionI assume) have where no one in the world wanted us, or when we had no choice but to sleep on the streets. Or lose half our family in an accident of whatever.

Like I said it's easy for someone of your age (no offence intended) to say that you have always been able to say no, but I would think that you have far more challanging times ahead of you unless you are a very lucky person, and I really do hope you are lucky