Council bans toy pigs from desks

[Ramrod]

Originally Posted by foreverwar

mmm - that's what my wife says!

Yours too?!

---------- Post added at 17:54 ---------- Previous post was at 17:53 ----------

Originally Posted by homealone

If she takes the image to be representative of the real thing, isn't she guilty of idolatry? - isn't that contrary to her faith?

Thats an inspired thought!

[Paul M]

Originally Posted by Nugget

In fairness, the Council have actually acted properly in taking action after a complaint.

Not true, just because you receive a complaint does not mean you actually have to take any action (esp ridiculous action).

[Nugget]

Originally Posted by Paul M

Not true, just because you receive a complaint does not mean you actually have to take any action (esp ridiculous action).

Oh, I agree. However, can you imagine the uproar if Dudley Council hadn't taken any action? Bearing in mind that Dudley has a large ethnic population, they were somewhat caught between the proverbial rock and a hard place

As much as I disagree with the fact that the complaint was made in the first place, this is exactly the sort of thing that gets splashed all over the press for exactly the wrong reasons. The Council couldn't actually win in this situation - if they take action as they have, they're pilloried for 'PC gone mad'. If they hadn't taken any action, they'd likely have been accused of our old friend 'institutional racism'. To my mind, they did the sensible thing - as much as it may seem ridiculous to have to do it, at the end of the day, they're asking people to remove some pieces of tat from their desk that, frankly, are neither here nor there. If it was me, I'd have given the woman a ding round the back of the head for being stupid, but I don't work for the Council...

[Escapee]

Originally Posted by TheDaddy

With all religions other than Islam being banned probably

Thats exactly what they want.

[Nugget]

Originally Posted by Escapee

Thats exactly what they want.

But not exactly applicable to this situation - this woman isn't trying to conmvert anybody; she's just misguided in taking her belief / faith / religion too far. In fact, in can be argued that she's actually misunderstood the fact that the pig is a 'dirty animal' in Islam - where the Koran says that pork shouldn't be eaten or touched, she has taken thid to the nth degree (wrongly, in my opinion, may I add).

As such, this has nothing to do with the Islamic world wanting to 'convert' the Western world - more to do with one silly woman. Anyway, there's be better places to start that Dudley - it's a dump

[Escapee]

Originally Posted by Nugget

But not exactly applicable to this situation - this woman isn't trying to conmvert anybody; she's just misguided in taking her belief / faith / religion too far. In fact, in can be argued that she's actually misunderstood the fact that the pig is a 'dirty animal' in Islam - where the Koran says that pork shouldn't be eaten or touched, she has taken thid to the nth degree (wrongly, in my opinion, may I add).

As such, this has nothing to do with the Islamic world wanting to 'convert' the Western world - more to do with one silly woman. Anyway, there's be better places to start that Dudley - it's a dump

I could never get to the bottom of the pig situation with the muslims I worked with. For some reason they would never say why they were offended by pigs, in fact the one insisted he didn't know why.

He was very religious as well.

Still, why should we not eat pigs or have toy pigs just because someone else doesn't like them. I dont like seeing these muslim women looking through their letter boxes. but if I complained I would be told to be more tolerant.

[Nugget]

Originally Posted by Escapee

I could never get to the bottom of the pig situation with the muslims I worked with. For some reason they would never say why they were offended by pigs, in fact the one insisted he didn't know why.

He was very religious as well.

Still, why should we not eat pigs or have toy pigs just because someone else doesn't like them. I dont like seeing these muslim women looking through their letter boxes. but if I complained I would be told to be more tolerant.

Hey, I'm no expert on Islam - I only just understand Zoroastrianism

As I said before, the Council were put in a position where they had to be seen to be doing something. Either they laughed this womans complaint off (which would have resulted in worse press than this - the Wolverhampton Express & Star isn't exactly highbrow), or they comply to a certain degree which, in reality, doesn't actually affect anybody to much. Let's face it, this woman can claim her moral victory, whilst everyone that she works with now has someone to gossip about when she's not there.

As I said - something had to be done and, to my mind, the Council have responded to it in the most sensible way

[NitroNutter]

I would say the council has placed themselves into a very dodgy situation, as they have backed a complaint about a being, one which causes no harm, is enjoyed by the majority. There for it is nothing more than discrminiation, by not backing the complaint and takiing no action they would not have become guilty of the offence. Perhaps our bulldog needs a good friend.

[Nugget]

Originally Posted by NitroNutter

I would say the council has placed themselves into a very dodgy situation, as they have backed a complaint about a being, one which causes no harm, is enjoyed by the majority. There for it is nothing more than discrminiation, by not backing the complaint and takiing no action they would not have become guilty of the offence. Perhaps our bulldog needs a good friend.

As I said, damned if they do and damned if they don't

[Escapee]

Originally Posted by NitroNutter

I would say the council has placed themselves into a very dodgy situation, as they have backed a complaint about a being, one which causes no harm, is enjoyed by the majority. There for it is nothing more than discrminiation, by not backing the complaint and takiing no action they would not have become guilty of the offence. Perhaps our bulldog needs a good friend.

Thats the way I look at it, someone (in the very small minority) has complained, and the majority have been told what they can and cant do.

The council could of dug a big hole for themselves, what about the next thing she comlains about?

Pigs are nice to eat, pigs are clean and pigs will always be eaten in this country, as long as the majority don't bow down to the minority. I dont agree with eating dogs, but I wouldn't go to some far east country and expect them to stop just because I dont like it.

The council have shown they are weak, and my experience is councillors are generally from the liberal to do-gooder variety.

[Nugget]

Originally Posted by Escapee

Thats the way I look at it, someone (in the very small minority) has complained, and the majority have been told what they can and cant do.

The council could of dug a big hole for themselves, what about the next thing she comlains about?

Pigs are nice to eat, pigs are clean and pigs will always be eaten in this country, as long as the majority don't bow down to the minority. I dont agree with eating dogs, but I wouldn't go to some far east country and expect them to stop just because I dont like it.

The council have shown they are weak, and my experience is councillors are generally from the liberal to do-gooder variety.

I think that you'll probably find that this had very little to do with the Councillors - it's far more likely that this decision was taken by the womans superiors (ie someone further up the management structure, but still an employee, as opposed to an elected member).

Here we have the age-old problem - yes, some people think that pork is tasty (for the record, I can't stand the stuff), but it is enshrined in Islam that you are not to eat it. That point is not up for debate, as that's just the way it is. This woman has just taken it too far - the pigs weren't actually affecting her in any way, shape or form.

However, as I've already said, the Council (as employers) had to be seen to be doing something, one way or the other. If they'd refused to take any action, I'm willing to bet that this woman would have been crying harassment or racial discrimination from the rooftops. Instead, you'd probably find that the rest of the employees don't actually understand what the fuss is about, and just think (like I do) that the woman's a couple of spanners short of a toolset. In fact, bearing in mind the population of Dudley and the surrounding areas, it's more than likely that there were some other Muslim members of staff who can't understand what the fuss is about either.

[etccarmageddon]

this is horse **** erm sorry pig **** - what offence could possibily caused - it's our bloody country - we like our pigs - if you dont like it find a country that doesnt do pigs.

[Escapee]

Originally Posted by Nugget

I think that you'll probably find that this had very little to do with the Councillors - it's far more likely that this decision was taken by the womans superiors (ie someone further up the management structure, but still an employee, as opposed to an elected member).

Here we have the age-old problem - yes, some people think that pork is tasty (for the record, I can't stand the stuff), but it is enshrined in Islam that you are not to eat it. That point is not up for debate, as that's just the way it is. This woman has just taken it too far - the pigs weren't actually affecting her in any way, shape or form.

However, as I've already said, the Council (as employers) had to be seen to be doing something, one way or the other. If they'd refused to take any action, I'm willing to bet that this woman would have been crying harassment or racial discrimination from the rooftops. Instead, you'd probably find that the rest of the employees don't actually understand what the fuss is about, and just think (like I do) that the woman's a couple of spanners short of a toolset. In fact, bearing in mind the population of Dudley and the surrounding areas, it's more than likely that there were some other Muslim members of staff who can't understand what the fuss is about either.

I have had a fair amount of contact with council employees, and not just elected councillors.

They are there to serve the community, and generally people more liberal in attitude are seen seen favourable to employ. I think the outcome could of been very different if it was a private company, with a more balanced section of society amongst managers.

[Nugget]

Originally Posted by Escapee

I have had a fair amount of contact with council employees, and not just elected councillors.

They are there to serve the community, and generally people more liberal in attitude are seen seen favourable to employ. I think the outcome could of been very different if it was a private company, with a more balanced section of society amongst managers.

I wouldn't argue that point that they are there to serve the community- I live with a council employee who's worked her backside off doing just that. However, I would argue the point that someone 'more liberal in attitude' is more likely to get a job - your attitude isn't interviewed and, unless they were stupendously stupid, they should employ the person who's best for the job. Having said that, I obviously can't speak for your local council

The question of whether or not this would have happened in a private company is moot - this hasn't happened in a private company. However, you are right in saying the outcome could have been different - on the flip side, it may not have been.

[Pia]

Originally Posted by etccarmageddon

this is horse **** erm sorry pig **** - what offence could possibily caused - it's our bloody country - we like our pigs - if you dont like it find a country that doesnt do pigs.

I agree completely.