are you stark raving looney ?

[kronas]

Cleveland Police Det Supt Tom Stoddart he gone on ecord as stating that heroin should be made available on the NHS, the same NHS which struggles to provide adequate patient care, the same NHS which cannot provide cancer patients with life saving drugs...

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/tees/5182790.stm

i can see his point... but instead of the NHS doing a free for all, why not let the user pay for it, in exchange for weening program ?

[bopdude]

Mmmm, if you'll pardon my straight forwardness here, I've had a drink so shooting from the hip here, here goes.

So the police want a dealer a day ?? why don't they go get them ? In every city / county / town / village, these dealers are known, not only to the police, but to a lot of US in the community, I'm speaking from a personal point of view, if they wanted them, they know where they could get them, if the general public know, they ( the police ) know.

So, why aren't / don't they the crack down on it ..........?????????

I ask you, do you know a dealer ? why haven't you done anything ?

[etccarmageddon]

perhaps 'crack' is not the term to use!

[Stuart C]

Erm, the guy appears to have no idea what he is talking about. Drug dealers make far too much money to allow this. Introduce this and you can expect to see anyone involved killed and their premises destroyed.

[Russ B]

Playing devil's advocate here - this guy is involved with crime and judging by his rank, he has done so for many years. He sees far more in the world of drugs than I'm sure the majority of us would. I'm not saying I think he's right or wrong, but why can't we just trust our police to do their job?

[BBKing]

why not let the user pay for it

That's the current system, isn't it (contracted out to private operators known as 'drug dealers')? It's not especially effective since your average heroin addict commits crimes to finance the committing of further crimes by drug dealers etc. The axiom here is 'do what the bad guys least want you to do' - they don't want a free service taking all their business away, so that sounds like a pretty good thing to do.

BTW it wasn't the NHS that stopped the prescription of Herceptin, but NICE:
http://www.nice.org.uk/page.aspx?o=328396.

Introduce this and you can expect to see anyone involved killed and their premises destroyed.

Sorry, this is the UK, not Colombia. The point is that if this goes into action, the drug dealers won't have any money (and it's mainly the low level ones, closest to the point of sale, who'll get hit hardest first, and those have less likelihood of access to the kind of heavy artillery needed to blow up, say, a hospital). You'd have to provide a degree of security for the drugs, but that's mainly to prevent theft, as at present.

[Derek S]

Originally Posted by kronas

heroin should be made available on the NHS, the same NHS which struggles to provide adequate patient care, the same NHS which cannot provide cancer patients with life saving drugs...

The NHS already provide Methadone to addicts and providing a regulated supply of Heroin and a safe/clean place to inject would reduce or remove the risk of overdoses and infections from badly cut or impure heroin.

The Scottish Police Federation recently called for all drugs to be legalised, a move which was promptly shot down in flames by politicians up here because lets face it, who knows more about drugs? Politicians who are busy thinking up new and inventive ways to screw the country and feather their nests or the police who have to deal with drugs, their users and the effects day in, day out...

http://www.tdpf.org.uk/MediaNews_Lat...ation_call.htm

Originally Posted by Russ D

Playing devil's advocate here - this guy is involved with crime and judging by his rank, he has done so for many years. He sees far more in the world of drugs than I'm sure the majority of us would. I'm not saying I think he's right or wrong, but why can't we just trust our police to do their job?

I agree.

Its about cleaning the streets up.

Germany has centres where you can go get off your tits on drugs and be safe.
The UK doesnt.
Middlebrough......the heart of Cleveland for those of you who may be geographically challenged or suffering from watford gap syndrome......has a severe heroin problem, so fdo its surrounding towns, most notably Billingham, my home town. Where its easier for the kids to get heroin than alcohol.

If it cleans up the streets its fair game. After all, the battle with drugs cannot be won by arresting known dealers, for every known one there are several unknown.

Its also worht noting that Methadone is not as safe as first thought, apparently its harder to get off methadone than heroin.

[Escapee]

Originally Posted by BBKing

That's the current system, isn't it (contracted out to private operators known as 'drug dealers')? It's not especially effective since your average heroin addict commits crimes to finance the committing of further crimes by drug dealers etc. The axiom here is 'do what the bad guys least want you to do' - they don't want a free service taking all their business away, so that sounds like a pretty good thing to do.

BTW it wasn't the NHS that stopped the prescription of Herceptin, but NICE:
http://www.nice.org.uk/page.aspx?o=328396.



Sorry, this is the UK, not Colombia. The point is that if this goes into action, the drug dealers won't have any money (and it's mainly the low level ones, closest to the point of sale, who'll get hit hardest first, and those have less likelihood of access to the kind of heavy artillery needed to blow up, say, a hospital). You'd have to provide a degree of security for the drugs, but that's mainly to prevent theft, as at present.

Now I'm worried I am starting to agree with some of your points.

The first thing that entered my head was "These people generally get their money to buy drugs by robbing other people" So I have to question a government charging for these sort of drugs.

Surely the government technically in effect handling stolen goods, if they accept cash that has been stolen to purchase the drugs.

I know a mother (friend of my parents) who has a daughter married to a serious drug addict, does she want him to be given free drugs? in a way yes, she would like to see him injected with as much as it will take to rid her daughter of him for good.

btw. They have just announced a Drug rehab centre not far from my house, this coming not long after the ongoing construction of a hostel for homeless teenagers right on my doorstep. I note the mayor again saying she is happy to see it in the area, the fact that they have received an £800K grant and its not in the area she lives is just fine.
This drug centre will cover the Pontypool and Cwmbran area, and talk is that free transport will be provided for the majority of users who are from the cwmbran area and not this area.

They are building this centre in a building tha used to be used for the community, mainly by pensioners. This was closed due to finanial reasons. This building is right opposite the drug dealers local hang out (pub) I would of thought it better to build it away from a known hang out for drug dealers.

[kronas]

Originally Posted by BBKing

That's the current system, isn't it (contracted out to private operators known as 'drug dealers')? It's not especially effective since your average heroin addict commits crimes to finance the committing of further crimes by drug dealers etc. The axiom here is 'do what the bad guys least want you to do' - they don't want a free service taking all their business away, so that sounds like a pretty good thing to do.

no, the system i was refering to was one where local trusts/hospitals would provide the heroin, in a safe and non-excessive way where it was atleast produced within safeguards and limited quantities.

---------- Post added at 02:36 ---------- Previous post was at 02:31 ----------

Originally Posted by Escapee

The first thing that entered my head was "These people generally get their money to buy drugs by robbing other people" So I have to question a government charging for these sort of drugs.

Surely the government technically in effect handling stolen goods, if they accept cash that has been stolen to purchase the drugs.

there are other ways druggies can get their money and do, prostitution and cheap labour, doing odd jobs...

[Paddy1]

My Thoughts.

Advantages

Crime goes down a lot. (Police time and court time saved)
Cost of crime goes down a lot. (money can be redirected to NHS etc)
Drug addicts get guaranteed clean drugs.
Drug addicts get off the street and into either NHS Dragon Palaces (tm) or their own homes depending on whether you allow them to leave with it. I think not, although they would kill themselves quicker and cease to be a drain on society.
Drug addicts can be weaned off.
Drug Dealers lose out BIG time.
Drug Dealers go on to sell less lethal drug to our kids. The next target. Keep hitting the worst target, Ice? Cocaine? Ecstacy? Get rid of the BAD drugs first then you can concentrate on the lesser ones more.
Young women, many of them single mothers, dont have to be prostitutes any more.
Young males don't have to be rentboys any more.
Taxes saved may well outstrip cost of provision.

Disadvantages

They get their drugs free.
Nimbyism.
My taxes go to pay for x and y and should not be used for z.
The very thought!

I agree with the point that for every dealer they pick up 10 more appear.

I don't agree that if it became legal that everyone would run out and start injecting heroin. As it is, if you want it you can get it. If you don't want it, you still won't want it.

Just my thoughts.

[TheDaddy]

Something similar was tried with heroin addicts somewhere in Scotland a few years back, free heroin for all registered addicts, all they did was spend the proceeds of crime on crack instead of smack, so it probably would not work, even if most drugs were avaliable things like meth- amphetamine and PCP probably wouldn't be so the dealers would just sell those instead.

[Derek S]

It works in Switzerland.

http://www.swissinfo.org/eng/science...=1149244409000

Originally Posted by Swiss Info

The liberalisation of Switzerland's drug policy since 1991 has led to a drop in the number of new heroin addicts, a Zurich University study has revealed.

Prohibition has failed. As has been mentioned previously in this thread for every dealer locked up more will be ready to take their place. IMO its time for bringing in ways to reduce the harm these drugs cause as much as possible.

[TheDaddy]

An interesting article and that, I believe is how it was in this country, before some idiot declared 'war on drugs', the few addicts just made appointments with their doctors.
I think it also interesting that Switzerland have decided on this course after their Needle Park fiasco.

[Stuart C]

Originally Posted by BBKing

Sorry, this is the UK, not Colombia. The point is that if this goes into action, the drug dealers won't have any money (and it's mainly the low level ones, closest to the point of sale, who'll get hit hardest first, and those have less likelihood of access to the kind of heavy artillery needed to blow up, say, a hospital). You'd have to provide a degree of security for the drugs, but that's mainly to prevent theft, as at present.

Not sure I agree. There are people in this country who have made a very nice living out of drug sales. You wouldn't necessary need heavy artillery. Just a few household chemicals, and someone who either knows a bit about bomb making, or can follow instructions. You could do an an awful lot of damage with that little lot.

Remember, the IRA never had heavy artillery, and managed to do an awful lot of damage both in England and Northern Ireland. Often with bombs made of household chemicals.