Israel and Lebanon

[bjorkiii]

Bengie they want to live in peace dont make me laugh, the palestinians are treat worse than dog muck. People can only take so much hammering untill they have to hit back.

Originally Posted by Bengie

All Israel wants to do is live in piece but the other countires dont want it so and that is why they continually bomb and suicide bomb and kill it's innocent people.
Israel has taken this for the last six years and has now said enough is enough.
the surrounding terrorist countries are getting all they deserve.

Israel carrie dout a war of terror on the palestinians, they are not innocent.

[Bengie]

Originally Posted by bjorkiii

Bengie they want to live in peace dont make me laugh, the palestinians are treat worse than dog muck. People can only take so much hammering untill they have to hit back.

I suggest you do some history reading - Israel has been very patient with Palestine and Lebenon for too long, they are the ones who can only take so much.

Are you saying that Hizbola and Hammas were right to go into Israel, kill soldiers and take others hostage??

[Damien]

Originally Posted by bjorkiii

Bengie they want to live in peace dont make me laugh, the palestinians are treat worse than dog muck. People can only take so much hammering untill they have to hit back.

They are provoked and then they over react.

They are as bad as each other

[Bengie]

Originally Posted by Damien

They are provoked and then they over react.

They are as bad as each other

You are obviously biased and have no knowledge of history.
This is my last post on this subject.

[bjorkiii]

Theres only so much people can take isnt there what are they supposed to do sit there and do nothing are you saying every palestinian person thats ever been killed was a terrorist ? You reap what you sow. All it needs now is an arab neighbour to join in and israel might get what it wants after all these years a nice little world war.

[Damien]

Originally Posted by Bengie

You are obviously biased and have no knowledge of history.
This is my last post on this subject.

Give it a rest. I normally defend Israel. But this has been a total overaction. An amazing attack which has killed more innocents than terrorists

[Maggy J]

Originally Posted by SMG

Excellent post. 100% agree.

Israel had ceased to exist until after WW11.It was the desire of the jewish survivors of that war to want to start up the state of Israel again that led to the terrorist actions of the founders of the present Israel to get a separate jewish state that has led us step by step to the troubles we now have.

The inevitable resentment of dispossessed palestinians to the Israeli people seemed to be one that they either didn't care about or just didn't forsee.
Or the fact that the surrounding Arab states would inevitably side with the dispossessed arabs.

The claim that Israel is the only democracy in the middle east doesn't wash with me.It is a lie.It is a democracy based on the actions of someone occupying a country with guns and saying to the inhabitants "b*gger off as I claim this land in the name of my faith".*

However Israel as a state has stood for 50 years and there is no going back that I can see.The problem seems to be that Israel has always dealt with arabic and Palestinian aggression by over doing things.They have increasingly used the sledgehammer to crack a nut tactics to deal with the terrorists and inevitably the number of innocents dragged into the conflict has grown.This might work in the short term but it just makes the resolve of their opponents grow stronger year by year and adds to their number.It's a lesson that Israel doesn't seem to want to learn that diplomacy will be the ONLY way to sort out the problems with their neighbours.


*Before anyone drags Iraq into this there is a difference.The Allies will be leaving Iraq as soon as their little legs will allow.Sooner if they can save face about it.

For those who condemn Israel's response, would you expect Britain to do nothing if France were firing rockets across the channel into UK cities? Israel has a right to protect it's people. The Lebanese government is either unwilling and/or unable (due to it's weakness) to stop these hezbullah rockets, so Israel has to take steps itself. I do think that Israel oversteps the line too often, like when it bombed the power station in Rafah after the kidnap of Gilad Shalit, and it should be much much more careful in its targets to avoid civilan casualties. But in both cases in Gaza and Lebanon, the situation was initiated by the kidnaps. You can't expect the Israelis to do nothing, plus there have been qassams fired into Israel for ages by hezbullah. Israel wants peace. If it's interests lay in oil then surely it wouldn't have given the Sinai peninsula back to Egypt in the 1980s because there were oil reserves there. But no, Israel gave the land back to Egypt when it signed a peace treaty. I hate the way that Israel is made out to be a war mongering nation by lots of people, when all the Israelis want is peace.

[Damien]

Originally Posted by Macca371

For those who condemn Israel's response, would you expect Britain to do nothing if France were firing rockets across the channel into UK cities? Israel has a right to protect it's people. The Lebanese government is either unwilling and/or unable (due to it's weakness) to stop these hezbullah rockets, so Israel has to take steps itself. I do think that Israel oversteps the line too often, like when it bombed the power station in Rafah after the kidnap of Gilad Shalit, and it should be much much more careful in its targets to avoid civilan casualties. But in both cases in Gaza and Lebanon, the situation was initiated by the kidnaps. You can't expect the Israelis to do nothing, plus there have been qassams fired into Israel for ages by hezbullah. Israel wants peace. If it's interests lay in oil then surely it wouldn't have given the Sinai peninsula back to Egypt in the 1980s because there were oil reserves there. But no, Israel gave the land back to Egypt when it signed a peace treaty. I hate the way that Israel is made out to be a war mongering nation by lots of people, when all the Israelis want is peace.

The terrorists are the ones firing rockets. Not Lebanon, Israel are killing innocents hoping that they will blame hezbullah for their actions. They are heading head first into a massive war in the middle east.

[etccarmageddon]

how many palestinian homes have been buldozed by the Israel government in order to make way for jewish families?

Originally Posted by Damien

The terrorists are the ones firing rockets. Not Lebanon.

Yeah, I know what you mean and I understand this. What I'm saying is, the Lebanese government won't act, be it unwilling or unable to. Israel has a right to defend itself from such attacks, so it has to take measures itself.

Civilians casualties are unjustified though.

---------- Post added at 22:27 ---------- Previous post was at 22:20 ----------

And two UK ships have been ordered to depart for Lebanon : http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/5184018.stm

I just hope that we don't get dragged into this conflict, and that they are going to rescue British citizens in Lebanon.

[Maggy J]

Originally Posted by Macca371

Yeah, I know what you mean and I understand this. What I'm saying is, the Lebanese government won't act, be it unwilling or unable to. Israel has a right to defend itself from such attacks, so it has to take measures itself.

Civilians casualties are unjustified though.

Like Ireland with republican terrorists living in southern Ireland but popping across the border to 'do business'.We didn't fire rockets at them then though they didn't appear to do anything to stop these terrorists at the time.

If we can show restraint why can't Israel? They really don't need to be destroying the infrastructure of Lebanon to make their point.They are really so arrogant to think that this won't just turn Lebanon people completely against them and swell the ranks of future terrorists?

It's about time the US dealt even handedly in this situation and stop defending Israel every time.At least with Clinton that was the case.Bush seems incapable of seeing this.

Originally Posted by Incognitas

Like Ireland with republican terrorists living in southern Ireland but popping across the border to 'do business'.We didn't fire rockets at them then though they didn't appear to do anything to stop these terrorists at the time.

Is this true though? The RoI must have taken some anti-terrorist measures and cooperated with British police somehow. And if the IRA were to stand at the border of Ulster and start firing rockets in that general direction, I doubt Irish polices forces would drive past and do nothing, wheras this type of thing would happen in Lebanon. The government is very ignorant of terrorist activity.

Originally Posted by Incognitas

If we can show restraint why can't Israel? They really don't need to be destroying the infrastructure of Lebanon to make their point.They are really so arrogant to think that this won't just turn Lebanon people completely against them and swell the ranks of future terrorists?

I agree Incog. The Israelis have gone over the top and it seems like they are waging war on the Lebanese people, which is wrong, and they are probably brewing up anti-Israeli sentiment in Lebanon. All I'm saying is that I can understand them going in and attempting to rescue their soldiers, and stopping these rockets.

Originally Posted by Incognitas

It's about time the US dealt even handedly in this situation and stop defending Israel every time.At least with Clinton that was the case.Bush seems incapable of seeing this.

The US does support Israel a lot. So do I, to be honest. There's a good quote by a Guardian journalist which goes 'Israel, for all its faults, is the only country in that barren region that you or I, or any feminist, atheist, homosexual or trade unionist, could bear to live under.' And I agree, it's the only truly democratic and free state in the Middle East. It's just that the US need to show a much more balanced view than it currently does.

[greencreeper]

Originally Posted by Ramrod

Well 2000+ yrs hasn't been enough.....

Humans are still here - on Earth