Is this racist?

me283 · 12-07-2006, 22:24

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/e...re/5174010.stm

Personally I don't think so. However, I find the fact that this guy was hounded out of his job for stating something which he believes to be statistically correct, is totally disgusting.

Chris W · 12-07-2006, 22:27

We don't actually know what he said- the specifics of his comments are very important imo. The way he phrased what he said and the exact terminology used are paramount to the interpretation- without these i can't comment.

**Russ B** · 12-07-2006, 22:30

In this day and age, I don't think you can seriously get away with stating something like that (whether it's true or not) without expecting a massive backlash.

TheDaddy · 12-07-2006, 22:39

I think he was surporting something called the Bell Curve theory and had about 150 year's worth of research to back his claims up, I remember listening to this story on the radio way back it mostly sounded like nonsense to me although he did raise some valid points and certainly did sound not racist to me.

Damien · 12-07-2006, 23:05

Its idotic. For years and years up until civil rights black people were denied as good an education as white people. Generations of black children have grown up in enviroments that were poor and had parents who had little education.

Now, this was based on average IQ. Going by that it seems the tests and research is fair. But IQ, while not based on education, is partly a product of your enviroment and your upbringing. So it follows that 'on average' black people MAY have lower IQs. But it does not mean that many do not, or could not, have High IQs. Its nothing to do with colour but the enviromental and poltical factors of black people over the last 100 years.

This will affect the statstics, and IMO this research is using a problem (which will slove itself in years to come) to make a agenda. A problem which is partly the fault of racism.

Bender · 12-07-2006, 23:48

how can a 'proven' statistic be racist? He stated that 'on average, black people are less intelligent'. I don't know if this is true or not or where his sources lay, but if the statement is correct and holds true in acedemia, it should not be classed as a racist comment, it's just the story the statistics tell.

It would be like saying, on average, most British born people are white. Well if that's true, so be it. If we agree that 'most' British people are white, and then, for arguements sake, 30% of white people and 30% of black people are unemployed, statistically, most unemployed people are white. Would we be arguing that this comment is racist against white people if someone said it out loud? Could that not be taken as saying White people are spongers? Of course not.

It is not a racist comment. It is people twisting someones words due to their own insecurities and tendency to jump for the jugular. Get over yourselves.

at the same time though, his statement may have been made on his own personal experience. granted, he should not generalise a subject that is bound to cause controversy, but at the same time, that is his own, person perspective. He should have the right to express that, but also the intelligence the make clear that it is based on his own personal experience. If the later is that case, he should be punished for his own stupidity, not for racism.

unfortunately, we live in a time where looking at someone the wrong we is perceived as being racist. it seems that some people use any excuse to claim their 15 minutes or compensation of some kind.

this sort of stuff really annoys me and should not be given any media coverage. it's absolute rubbish.

nffc · 13-07-2006, 00:09

Not if he's saying something that is true.

TheDaddy · 13-07-2006, 00:15

Quote:

Originally Posted by nffc

Not if he's saying something that is true.

That seems to be the problem though, his argument has many holes in it, although it was never intended to offend anyone in my view, I certainly don't think he deserved all the criticism.

danielf · 13-07-2006, 00:18

This is a very tricky and controversial area. It is true that Black people on average, score lower on IQ tests than white people (who incidentally score lower than Asians). There is a lot of controversy over whether this is due to genetic or environmental factors, or due to the specific IQ tests being used (there certainly is a case for the latter when it comes to early IQ tests: These had a tendency to probe more for factual knowledge more than ability).

More info here:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Race_and_intelligence

Saying that Black people on average score lower on IQ tests is pretty much a factual statement. Saying that Black people are less intelligent is an interpretation of that fact imo. Hell, scientists can hardly decide on what intelligence is, let alone come up with a good way of testing it...

So, was the lecturer racist? I don't know. Was he smart? Definitely not... (As I understand, he's a lecturer in Russian studies. It's not as if he is an expert in the field, and I don't think he can claim it is his scientific position he's putting forward). Is it right he was sent with early retirement? I don't know as I don't know what he said exactly and what the context was.

Oh, did I mention that men outscore women on measures of spatial ability and women outscore men on measures of verbal ability? (Nothing to do with the subject except indicate how thorny the issue is)

Millay · 13-07-2006, 00:33

I think the wider story here is if we can all be equal, every demonimation, makes ther mark and wants to be treated equal.

But is this ever possible?

Will women ever become the majority of builders?

Will a black man ever become the... OK whilst writting this (and I am drunk) I realised I can not differetiate between blacks and whites, although I could quote Bill Cosby.

From what I see, we all have a lot to learn about each other, we can only do that if we freely talk about each other!

Enuff · 13-07-2006, 01:18

Quote:

Dr Ellis, an expert in Russian literature in the department of modern languages and culture, told a student newspaper that he was a supporter of the late Enoch Powell, the Conservative MP who warned that immigration would lead to "rivers of blood". Dr Ellis also said he would support repatriation if it were done "humanely".

Link

Gareth · 13-07-2006, 02:27

Dodger, your link is fubar'ed

Enuff · 13-07-2006, 03:24

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gareth

Dodger, your link is fubar'ed

Oops!

too late for me to edit, so here ya'go.

Fixed Link

punky · 13-07-2006, 08:50

As others have said... If its a true statistic, then its not racist, no matter how derogatry it is...

This reminds me of the American professor who was hounded after he said (quite factually accurately) that men's brains are more designed for science. He was villified in the name of 'equality' and political correctness...

orangebird · 13-07-2006, 09:17

<sarcasm on> Tsk Tsk people. What you seem to be forgetting is that it's only NOT racist if the Commission for Racial Equality had used the stat as another way of bleeting about how underpriviledged ethnics are and deserve their own schools. Of course it's racist, as white middleclass man said it.... <sarcasm off>