[MERGED] Syd Barrett

[orangebird]

Originally Posted by carlingman

Tragic loss as you say.

But regardless of whether you liked the band or person in general not as some in this thread don't and take pleasure at certain popular figures deaths it should not be ridiculed.

RIP Sid.

I'm sure that was aimed at me, so I'll clear a couple of things up shall I?

I IN NO WAY ridiculed or took any pleasure whatsoever in SYDs death. I'm slightly indifferent about it TBH. Sympathies to his family etc, but I was merely refuting the point someone made about it being a shame that this generation don't appreciate him and I pointed out a few things about Syd that certainly shoudn't be appreciated. Problem?

[sherer]

i'm sure most people havethings in their past that they wished they never did and could forget but now is the time to celebrate his music and all that he achieved in such a short space of time

for a man who hasn't done any work since 1972 and only released one album with PF .. plus working on a few tracks on the second album and two solo albums and then didn't do any more work.. tha fact that people are still inspired by him shows what a genius, albit maybe a flawed one, he was

what i've found annoying and disrespectful to him is that a lot of papers are dragging up his drug past and the crazy stories about him from a time when he was mentally ill..

also for a singer and song writter all the radio stations as tribute aren't playing any of his songs but another song written about him.. surely it would be better to play something Syd wrote

you only need to listen to songs like Love Song, Late Night and Dominoes to hear how beatiful some of his stuff was

[orangebird]

Again, why is he a genius? Because he wrote some music that some people really liked? Why does that mean that he should be viewed as a genius by everyone?

[sherer]

Originally Posted by orangebird

Again, why is he a genius? Because he wrote some music that some people really liked? Why does that mean that he should be viewed as a genius by everyone?

the fact that he pushed the boundaries of music at that time.. considering all they had to listen to when they grew up was folk music and jazz to come up with a 10 minute intrsumental pushing the boundaries of gauitar playing and totally different to anything around at that time

way before anyone else had every done this Syd used to rub ball bearings and metal lighters down his guitar to get new sounds

instead of going on stage and just playing their hits they used to do free form improvisations live that went on for 20 mins.. no one else had ever done that sort of thing before

just listen to Dominoes.. when they recorded that they turned the tape round so that it was playing backwards and then he recorded his guitar solo over the top of that and it sounds perfect even tough it is backwards.. i'm sure if Hendrix had done that it would be classed as genius but just because it was Syd it's just classed as drugged crazyed madness

the fact that the band he founded as gone onto multi million pound fame shows something

if he's still inspiring people today he must have had something about him

why shouldn't he be classed as a genius ?

[orangebird]

Originally Posted by sherer

the fact that he pushed the boundaries of music at that time.. considering all they had to listen to when they grew up was folk music and jazz to come up with a 10 minute intrsumental pushing the boundaries of gauitar playing and totally different to anything around at that time

Well, I'm glad that he gave something to the people of that time. BUt why should this generation think of him that way?

way before anyone else had every done this Syd used to rub ball bearings and metal lighters down his guitar to get new sounds

And that's classed as genius?

instead of going on stage and just playing their hits they used to do free form improvisations live that went on for 20 mins.. no one else had ever done that sort of thing before

There's a first time for everything, but I don't see how a 'first' equals ingenuity..

just listen to Dominoes.. when they recorded that they turned the tape round so that it was playing backwards and then he recorded his guitar solo over the top of that and it sounds perfect even tough it is backwards.. i'm sure if Hendrix had done that it would be classed as genius but just because it was Syd it's just classed as drugged crazyed madness

Jimi played guitar with his teeth. And he was always high too. And died younger. Does that make Hendrix an even better genius?

the fact that the band he founded as gone onto multi million pound fame shows something

if he's still inspiring people today he must have had something about him

why shouldn't he be classed as a genius ?

The Beatles are a multi million pound legacy, so's Kylie, so's Pavarotti too. Do you consider them all genius' too?

My point is, you can class him as whatever you want. BUt I don't think this generation should be classed as shamed for not appreciating him.

[homealone]

The influence of drugs on the mental breakdown experienced by Syd Barrett is assumed, rather than proven, and some people are of the opinion that they merely hastened what would have occurred, anyway.

One thing that may be misunderstood is the attitude towards LSD at the time, and how it changed. The first LSD available in the UK was imported from America & was given 'cute' names like strawberry fields, yellow sunshine, purple haze, etc . People like Timothy Leary advocated use of the drug as an aid to 'enlightenment' & it wasn't actually illegal in America until 1966.

It took a while for the negatives to emerge, but it became increasingly evident that some people were subsceptible to psychotic behaviour because of LSD use. That wasn't helped by the variability between 'batches' of the drug, doses per tablet varied, as did the level of impurities, so someone having a 'good' experience one day, could unexpectedly find themselves having an extremely terrifying 'bad trip' the next time they tried.
- I think that is what happened to Syd, although speculative, it would explain how he changed, literally overnight, from a creative outgoing person to the withdrawn & reclusive one he became.

As I said previously, I'm not seeking to condone the situation, but I do feel that there was never the assumption of a risk being taken - if you take heroin, you expect to become addicted, but at the time the 'vibe' about LSD was fairly positive, no-one really thought it was any more than 12 hours being 'blissed out', certainly not a route to mental illness...

[Stuart C]

Originally Posted by sherer

the fact that he pushed the boundaries of music at that time.. considering all they had to listen to when they grew up was folk music and jazz to come up with a 10 minute intrsumental pushing the boundaries of gauitar playing and totally different to anything around at that time

Actually, there were many kinds of music available at that time (hell, throughout history, there has always been many kinds of music available).

way before anyone else had every done this Syd used to rub ball bearings and metal lighters down his guitar to get new sounds

That ,to me, would suggest a willingness to experiment, and innovate. Not necessarily genius. I could go up on stage and start using things in wierd ways to produce sounds. Of course, with me not being musically talented, I would be lucky if the sounds I produced weren't offensive. The genius comes from making it sound good.

just listen to Dominoes.. when they recorded that they turned the tape round so that it was playing backwards and then he recorded his guitar solo over the top of that and it sounds perfect even tough it is backwards.. i'm sure if Hendrix had done that it would be classed as genius but just because it was Syd it's just classed as drugged crazyed madness

I can't comment on the particular track, as I have not heard it, but drugs and music often do go hand in hand, and this does sometime produce the best music. This has always happened. In fact, IIRC, there was a good chance that Blake was off his head on opium when he wrote Jerusalem.

I would also class Hendrix as a drug crazed man, but I wouldn't doubt his talents whether under the influence of drugs or not.

the fact that the band he founded as gone onto multi million pound fame shows something

The Spice Girls, Girls Aloud, Kylie, Atomic Kitten and the Crazy Frog have all made millions from the music industry. While some of them might sound good, I wouldn't class their wealth as a sign of a massive amount of talent (even though all apart from the Crazy Frog can sound good and look good).

[sherer]

i can't really see the point in argueing over this as i doubt i'm going to be able to convince anyone he is a genius if that isn't what they think

[Enuff]

We all have our genius's in life, and there are plenty to chose from. If it wasnt for the genius of Adolph Rickenbacker I dont think this thread would exist.

[foreverwar]

Originally Posted by Dodger444

We all have our genius's in life, and there are plenty to chose from. If it wasnt for the genius of Adolph Rickenbacker I dont think this thread would exist.

What's the Red Baron got to with Pink Floyd?

[Maggy J]

The one thing PF knew how to do well was to be controversial.As a teacher however I was appalled at the lyrics of The Wall.It was a don't bother to do or achieve anything because you are a pawn of the state attitude, that got right up my nose.

Frankly however most of the music seemed less special than say the stuff Pete Townsend wrote.IMHO that is.

However they were appreciated by many and as such have a space in modern music history.Just not in my heart.

[carlingman]

Originally Posted by orangebird

I'm sure that was aimed at me, so I'll clear a couple of things up shall I?

I IN NO WAY ridiculed or took any pleasure whatsoever in SYDs death. I'm slightly indifferent about it TBH. Sympathies to his family etc, but I was merely refuting the point someone made about it being a shame that this generation don't appreciate him and I pointed out a few things about Syd that certainly shoudn't be appreciated. Problem?

Well if you feel obliged to clear up, go on then.

I can see from the above childish dig quoting me you still have a problem from ancient postings I made where you seamed to hold a grudge from when you took pleasure in ridiculing the popes death and catolicism in general.

Anyhows back to the topic here.

Upshot is Pink Floyd are amazing and Syd Barrett and Jimmy Hendrix were too along with many others regardless of their drug intake.

There are many others who had drug influences in their lives who were clearly undisputed music legends – Elvis, Ray Charles, Johnny Cash to name but a few.

[David F]

Originally Posted by Incognitas

The one thing PF knew how to do well was to be controversial.As a teacher however I was appalled at the lyrics of The Wall.It was a don't bother to do or achieve anything because you are a pawn of the state attitude, that got right up my nose.

Frankly however most of the music seemed less special than say the stuff Pete Townsend wrote.IMHO that is.

However they were appreciated by many and as such have a space in modern music history.Just not in my heart.

Think you have miss judged The Wall. We don't need no education is clearly a double negative.I think this part of the film shows the effects the Teacher had on Pink and how Teachers relationship with his wife made him a bully. The effects of the death of Pinks father on him throughout is life,the overprotective behaviour of his mother led Pink to have a total distrust of women which also fueled his problems with his wife.Until the ultimate where his drug fueled psychosis led Pink into a world of paranoia, hatred and intolerance.IMO this is the best rock "opera" ever written .I dont argue about the brilliance of The Who I also am a great fan of theres.Tommy although an inspired vison imo isnt as real as The Wall