Ofcom is killing off 0870 Scams

28-04-2006, 08:37

Read This:

http://www.ofcom.org.uk/media/news/2006/04/nr_20060419

NitroNutter · 28-04-2006, 13:25

I complained about this years ago to ofcom and they came back to me that there was nothing wrong.

What brought it to light to me was ntl because at the time they regarded all 0870 as premium numbers, therefore if you had a premium rate bar oops theres goes the suposed national rate numbers too, which actually are not national rate but a special rate. I guess they must have thought again, but only after millions have been made from them. We should get a rebate for the rip off as the telco's were just as much in on this.

bonzoe · 28-04-2006, 18:48

It's long overdue, pity we have to wait another 18 months. They should also tackle the 0845 nos, but the've decided not to. These so called national rate and local rate numbers are no longer charged at those rates.

scrotnig · 28-04-2006, 19:57

Telecoms companies are forever looking for new ways to con people and rip people off. The entire market needs a *serious* shake up, but OFCOM are in their pocket and wouldn't say boo to a goose. A totally ineffective regulator, beaten for ineffectiveness only by the energy regulator.

My proposals, just from the top of my head:

0870 and 0845 to be just like 01XXX and 02XXX numbers, and included in those call plans like Option 2 and Option 3.

Premium rate numbers (09XXX) to be BLOCKED BY DEFAULT on ALL phone lines unless instructed otherwise by the account holder. Failure to do this is sanctioning the blatant profiteering from scams.

"Hidden" charges like connection fees etc outlawed. The price you see should be the price you pay.

Transfer of supplier procedures tightened up. There is still a *massive* amount of mis-selling, and the regulator doesn't seem to care one jot.

An end to constant pestering of customers to change supplier by telephone and on the doorstep. Or at the very least, a change to the procedure so that rather than instigating the transfer over the phone, paperwork should be sent which the customer must sign and return to start the transfer.

The above is just for starters and would help remove the stench of corruption from the industry.

Chrysalis · 29-04-2006, 05:40

I would also add blanket ban on advertising unlimited with a disclaimer, you either advertise it and allow it to be used to its potential or advertise limited services, this is occuring all over the telecoms industry from phone to broadband.

scrotnig · 29-04-2006, 09:06

Agreed...

"Unlimited free calls" is often advertised, it is portrayed as 'all your calls will be free' by salesmen, when it fact it's only local and national calls up to 60 or 90 minutes.

I come across *so* many customers who thought 0870 and 0845 was included. Less commonly but still often, you get people who thought mobiles were included. Not because they are stupid, but because that's the *impression* given by the advertising and the sales pitch.

It has GOT to stop. It is a very serious problem, far more serious than many people realise.

I never thought I'd say this, but at the moment the best company to be with for your phone line is....BT! They are not the cheapest provider, however the savings that can be made, for most people, amount to no more than a pound or two at most.

Try talking your BT line to one of the third party providers using Wholesale Line Rental (not ntl, that's different, unless it's ntl Freedom) and then have it go wrong. Try reporting the fault and watch the farce. They don't want to know, and neither do Openreach (BT Wholesale who have to fix the fault), you can be left with no line for weeks and you will get NOTHING in compensation.

You will be generally ok with BT.

Chrysalis · 29-04-2006, 15:03

its not only that I noticed at the bottom on the ntl rolling advert that it says "we reserve the right to withdraw the talk plan at anytime, or where usage is not in keeping with that reasonably expected of a residental customer". So like broadband if you use it 24 hours a day they probably take it of you and it isnt truly unlimited.

anthemuk · 29-04-2006, 16:24

http://saynoto0870.com/

Don't know where you are with this thread but you can visit http://saynoto0870.com/ and get alternative numbers to 0870 etc that give you local rates.

nffc · 29-04-2006, 22:50

Quote:

Originally Posted by anthemuk

http://saynoto0870.com/

Don't know where you are with this thread but you can visit http://saynoto0870.com/ and get alternative numbers to 0870 etc that give you local rates.

Some of the numbers on that site are blatantly wrong though.

anthemuk · 30-04-2006, 07:15

All the ones that I've used have been fine!!! there may be some wrong but what about the ones that are right? Bit negative eh?

**Russ** · 30-04-2006, 07:29

No, not negative at all if he's talking from experience. In any case it's supposed to be a help site and if the help offered is incorrect then it's justified to point it out.

NitroNutter · 02-05-2006, 08:43

Quote:

Originally Posted by nffc

Some of the numbers on that site are blatantly wrong though.

Its not that they are wrong, most often they are just out of date. Look at it like this the Geographical number is an IP and the 08xx numbers are domain names. Both are easy to change and often do. Shame but theres no way the site could ever be 100% correct and as more companies change thier numbers its likely to get worse.

What you should do is demand the companies geographical number from the company, use the reason I call from my mobile and the geographical number is included in the plan. If they arent prepared to give it they are more interested in phone profits than customers.

King Of Fools · 02-05-2006, 09:40

Quote:

Originally Posted by NitroNutter

What you should do is demand the companies geographical number from the company, use the reason I call from my mobile and the geographical number is included in the plan. If they arent prepared to give it they are more interested in phone profits than customers.

Often companies give out their geographical number if you need to phone from abroad (like credit cards) in the form +44 1702 123456. Then you can just replace the +44 with 0 and get the calls at inclusive rates.

nffc · 02-05-2006, 18:45

Quote:

Originally Posted by NitroNutter

Quote:

Originally Posted by nffc

Some of the numbers on that site are blatantly wrong though.

Its not that they are wrong, most often they are just out of date. Look at it like this the Geographical number is an IP and the 08xx numbers are domain names. Both are easy to change and often do. Shame but theres no way the site could ever be 100% correct and as more companies change thier numbers its likely to get worse.

What you should do is demand the companies geographical number from the company, use the reason I call from my mobile and the geographical number is included in the plan. If they arent prepared to give it they are more interested in phone profits than customers.

That may well be true, but I'd say most CC staff don't know of, or don't have access to a list of the geographical numbers - or at least equivalents to the correct line.

The whole idea of saynoto0870 is good, but as with any directory or resource that relies on user submissions some incorrect ones will sneak in.

For instance, I had a look at the DSG ones. Some of the numbers there are NOT customer facing or even correct, I can pretty much say that using those numbers will not get the result you need.

For our call centres it's likely the IVR will redirect to geographicals, well, pretty much cast iron since all 0870s/0845s/0800s etc are just redirectors anyway - but we don't know them, the IVR probably redirects to literally tens of them, and then straight into the queue anyway if there is one. And surely that defeats the point of the menu - to get you through easily to someone who can deal with your query. If you have to try tens and tens of geographical numbers then get told it's the wrong one, and keep trying - you will get ****ed off, and also run up a phone bill that you probably would have saved anyway.

And the whole point of the numbers is that they allow everyone in the country to pay the same. If our call centre used the 0115 numbers it would be cheap for local people to call, people in the Midlands, but for people in the south west or in the North of Scotland it would be expensive - so everyone pays the same. The fact that the 0870s etc are not included in talk plans is more the fault of the customers not checking the deals properly or the phone providers for misleading them, or not including them in the package to begin with. Plus especially for places with so many options the list of numbers would mean customers would need to be provided with a list the size of yellow pages to then find the right one... difficult. We also do not have anything other than internal extensions because otherwise, that would mean way way too many numbers to use especially bearing in mind the number of staff!

Wrong because they just don't serve the intended purpose, or wrong because it's old... the fact a number is listed means little and has no indication of its real purpose.
Imagine if your business number was posted on there and you were flooded with customers wanting something you were unable to offer on a number they shouldn't have...

NitroNutter · 02-05-2006, 19:04

Quote:

Originally Posted by nffc

<snip...>And the whole point of the numbers is that they allow everyone in the country to pay the same. If our call centre used the 0115 numbers it would be cheap for local people to call, people in the Midlands, but for people in the south west or in the North of Scotland it would be expensive - so everyone pays the same. The fact that the 0870s etc are not included in talk plans is more the fault of the customers not checking the deals properly or the phone providers for misleading them, or not including them in the package to begin with. Plus especially for places with so many options the list of numbers would mean customers would need to be provided with a list the size of yellow pages to then find the right one... difficult. We also do not have anything other than internal extensions because otherwise, that would mean way way too many numbers to use especially bearing in mind the number of staff!

Wrong and its not often I say it so bluntly. 0870 is allways dearer than any uk geographical number from any uk location. Has been for a long time. 0870 is profit for both the telco's and the company with the 0870. You are correct on one point, everyone pays the same, which is well over the odds. When 0870 first came out it was the equivalent of the geographic national rate, the same with 0845 and local rate. The problem is 0870 numbers has not reduced in accordance with regular national rate, therefore expect customers to be peeved and expect websites to get set up with databases of numbers, also expect ofcom to be lobied till change happens.

0870 is no longer what it advertises to be "national rate" and that is the be all and end all of the number. It is now a money spinner with busted robots and endless loops or huge ques. As it is not a national rate number anymore but a special rate this is also the reason why virtually all telco plans do not include them. The customers have been forced into taking the action, so I should say, ye reap what ye sow, and a scam will allways bite you in the ass, one way or another.