World superbullies strike again?

[Russ B]

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/south_asia/4647956.stm

[kronas]

i would agree with the title, not seen anything to suggest Iran is doing something underhanded, so what if they broke seals on a few nuclear facilities!

then again if someone knows more than me go ahead enlighten me!

[punky]

Yeah superbullies... Nevermind The EU, UN and the rest of the sane thinking world also agree that Iran shouldn't have nuclear weapons.

And the US is allowed to its business to whoever they damn well like. Would you give your business to people against you when you can help out your allies?

Oh, and 'superbully' Dubya just happened to be the one who orchestrated the deal in the first place, in the process lifting sanctions against India. The deal hasn't even been approved by US Congress yet, so even if India did agree with the US on Iran then they might not end up with the nuclear technology anyway.

And India deserve a kick up the a**e for refusing to support action against Iran anyway. Bunch of idiots. Pakistan is moderate and western friendly now, but who knows for how much longer? If hardliners who are readily visible even now, are successful in assassinating Musharaff and cementing ties to Iran, India might end up regretting their decision, looking wistfully at the mushroom clouds where India Kashmir, Mumbai and New Delhi used to be.

[Derek S]

Originally Posted by punky

India might end up regretting their decision, looking wistfully at the mushroom clouds where India Kashmir, Mumbai and New Delhi used to be.

Well thats one way to stop US (and UK) companies offshoring jobs to India

Anyway back to more serious matters. Has the US offered Iran civilian only nuclear technology like it has to India?

If it has and Iran has rejected it fair enough but if it hasn't surely its being a bit hyporcritical to pick and choose who it helps then throw the toys out of the pram if another country decides it wants nuclear power.

[Xaccers]

Originally Posted by dezzo

Well thats one way to stop US (and UK) companies offshoring jobs to India

Anyway back to more serious matters. Has the US offered Iran civilian only nuclear technology like it has to India?

If it has and Iran has rejected it fair enough but if it hasn't surely its being a bit hyporcritical to pick and choose who it helps then throw the toys out of the pram if another country decides it wants nuclear power.

Totally different situations.
India has civilian nuclear power stations.
India also did not sign the NPT.
India had sanctions imposed on it due to the development of nuclear weapons.
India has not said it wants to wipe another nation off the map.

Iran has signed the NPT agreeing that it should not develope nuclear weapons.
Iran is making moves which suggest it wishes to develope nuclear weapons.
When it has been asked to confirm that this is not the case via monitoring from an international body, it has refused to comply. Not something a country developing civilian nuclear power only is likely to do.
Iran has had no sanctions applied against it due to it's nuclear development plans.
Russia has offered it's services in controling the uranium so that Iran cannot develope or be accused of developing nuclear weapons, Iran has declined.
Iran has said that it wants to wipe another nation off the map.

Can you see the difference?

[Derek S]

Originally Posted by Xaccers

India also did not sign the NPT.
*snip*
Iran has signed the NPT agreeing that it should not develope nuclear weapons.

So is that a yes or a no that the US has offered them the same technology as India?

And India and Pakistans sanctions were quietly dropped the moment the US actually needed them for anything.

If they have and Iran has rejected the offer then fine. Pop them off the the UN to have sanctions whatever enforced.
If they haven't offered this then they should before threatening sanctions etc.

From that I can see India and Pakistan have nuclear weapons so they are allowed into the big boys club even though they haven't signed up to the NPT saying they'll play nice with their toys.

[Xaccers]

Originally Posted by dezzo

So is that a yes or a no that the US has offered them the same technology as India?

If I had a sunroof for a mercedes and you had no mercedes but your neighbour did, which one would I offer it to?
Similarly, if India has the ability to benifit from the technology and Iran doesn't because it has no nuclear power stations, then the US aren't going to offer their technology to Iran now are they?
Incidently, they also haven't offered it to Luxemburg, are the US being unfair with that too?

Originally Posted by dezzo

And India and Pakistans sanctions were quietly dropped the moment the US actually needed them for anything.

Really? When were they dropped? What organisation imposed these sanctions, what were the terms of the sanctions, what organisation removed the sanctions? (could it possibly have been the UN?)

Originally Posted by dezzo

If they have and Iran has rejected the offer then fine. Pop them off the the UN to have sanctions whatever enforced.
If they haven't offered this then they should before threatening sanctions etc.

See my mercedes analogy.

Originally Posted by dezzo

From that I can see India and Pakistan have nuclear weapons so they are allowed into the big boys club even though they haven't signed up to the NPT saying they'll play nice with their toys.

Ok, lets explain this again.
India and Pakistan did not sign the NPT, therefore they were free to develope nuclear weapons, which they did, along with Israel (while the US was looking the other way in that war the French dragged them into).
The other nations did sign it, and as such are not allowed to increase their strategic nuclear weapons.
For those countries like ours, this means we are not allowed to increase the numbers of our strategic nukes.
For countries like Iran, they are not allowed to develope nukes as this would be an increase.
Does that sound unreasonable?
Or should the NPT be torn up and all countries be able to develope nukes?
I'm sure you'd be complaining like mad if the US started increasing it's ICBM stockpile, right?

[Derek S]

Originally Posted by Xaccers

Really? When were they dropped? What organisation imposed these sanctions, what were the terms of the sanctions, what organisation removed the sanctions? (could it possibly have been the UN?)

Nope it was the US Government. And the sanctions on both countries were finally lifted completely on the 22nd of September 2002.

By a startling co-incidence this was round about the time the US wanted to fly planes over/from these countries on the way to Afghanistan.

http://www.denistn.mine.nu/pdf2html....ation/6202.pdf

[Xaccers]

Originally Posted by dezzo

Nope it was the US Government. And the sanctions on both countries were finally lifted completely on the 22nd of September 2002.

By a startling co-incidence this was round about the time the US wanted to fly planes over/from these countries on the way to Afghanistan.

http://www.denistn.mine.nu/pdf2html....ation/6202.pdf

In 1998, India and Pakistan each conducted tests of nuclear explosive devices,drawing world condemnation. The United States and a number of India's and Pakistan's
major trading partners imposed economic sanctions in response. Most U.S. economic
sanctions were lifted or eased within a few months of their imposition

So most were lifted after a couple of months anyway, or at least those imposed by the US. The other nations however may still have sanctions against India, while the US currently has none.
However, they did indeed apply a punishment against India and Pakistan for developing nuclear weapons.
Exactly how would you have prefered they dropped the sanctions?
I'm pretty sure that the Indians and Americans would have known about it.
If it wasn't picked up by our media, is that the fault of the US?
Was it wrong of the US to drop sanctions?
If so, why are you apparently complaining about international actions against Iran for wanting to develope nuclear weapons?

[Derek S]

Originally Posted by Xaccers

If so, why are you apparently complaining about international actions against Iran for wanting to develope nuclear weapons?

I'm not complaining, in one of my previous posts I mentioned

Originally Posted by Dezzo

Pop them off the the UN to have sanctions whatever enforced.

I'm just wanting to make sure there is an even playing field.

[Xaccers]

Originally Posted by dezzo

I'm not complaining, in one of my previous posts I mentioned



I'm just wanting to make sure there is an even playing field.

As long as members who have signed the NPT adhere to it, then there will be.
The US and EU are not against Iran developing nuclear power, it's the actions which would enable them to create weapons which has caused the concern.
Iran has been given many chances to show that it is only interested in power stations, and countries have bent over backwards to help, but to no avail