Does Clegg have the bottle

[Chris]

Originally Posted by Arthurgray50@blu

Chris, its the policies that this government enforce upon us, that brings it down to the government.

They enforced the pay freeze, they control the prices at the pumps which supplies us fuel to drive to work, and don't say that's down to the oil companies, the government make more money from taxes at the pumps, they makes taxes on everything that we buy. When you go to a garage and you fill up your car, 80% goes in tax, the garage makes money on what they sell in the shop- and l know two people who run garages.

If you smoke, then you pay taxes each time to buy cigarettes, need l go further.

EVERYTHING, we buy today, we either pay VAT or tax on, where does that tax go, to the treasury.

Each time there is a budget, its the chancellor that puts extra stress on us, so please don't tell me its not the government job, it is.

The government have place on local councils budgets, which they have to abide by - bingo to the rents go up. I could have bought my house FIVE times over since l moved here. IF the government had there way, council rents would soar, mortgages would increase which would give them more money - need l go on.

Yes, l have a good job, luckily l am still in it, BUT the have increased the retirement age, to save money on people who want to retire early to save them money, l have to go a further four years before l can retire, then it will be poverty on the pocksy OAP the government will give.

Arthur, you appear to be arguing with yourself. Yes, it's true, the Government raises tax left right and centre. The reason it does this is because we have become a nation of welfare junkies. You want to be looked after - well, looking after you costs money.

So what do you want? Less tax taken on fuel, fags, VAT and everything else and the cuts in Government spending that would then need to occur in order to pay for it? Or tax levels that continue to cripple families and the wider economy just so you and your family can be 'looked after'?

[Arthurgray50@blu]

Chris, l have never dis agreed with any member (sometimes), but on this time, l think you are living 20 years ago.

I am 60 years old and have always worked hard to provide for my wife and family and l get really annoyed that under a former Tory government (Thatcher) we had policies forced on wand the terrible Poll Tax that crippled this country, forcing people to pay money that they could not afford, unemployment was up.

And now under another Tory government, forget about Clegg, who has no clue whats soever how to run a corner shop let alone a country.

We are going through the same problem, and l find myself going through the same problem, l have no savings now as they have paid bills, my job for example is with a major employer, but since the Tories came in, my job has been under threat TWICE, and we survive.

Don't want to say this, but the Tories are a rich mans party and always will be, and us the worker, are being trod on and cannot do anything to solve it - l hope and pray by the end of this year, Clegg has the bottle to pull the plug on this terrible coalition so that we can pick ourselves off the ground and try and make a life out of what is left of the pickings.

[Chris]

Sorry ... I present you with the simple fact that Government spending and therefore its ability to "look after" you is directly connected to levels of taxation, and for that reason I'm living in 1992? Even for you that's an impressive leap of illogical thought.

Arthur, the Labour party, in power from 1997 until 2010, did not abolish the link between tax and spend. They did lots of it, and worse - they racked up increased debt during the boom times instead of building up savings to take us through the bad.* Expensive, now unaffordable schemes like paying kids to attend sixth form, then encouraging up to half of them to study useless degrees at third-rate universities, while hooking the middle classes on benefits (euphemistically called child tax credit), were what Gordon Brown did with all that stealth tax and unwise debt.

If Cleggy has the "bottle" to pull the plug on the Coalition next year, we will almost certainly end up with Brown's disciple, Balls, in No. 11, and I can assure you his prescription (borrow more, pay back less) will royally screw this country in ways you can't begin to imagine.

No, Nick Clegg can best serve the national interest by doing what he does best, being a spineless, unprincipled coward. He knows he faces electoral oblivion if he goes to the polls without giving the economy the maximum possible time to turn the corner, and will cling grimly to the hope of a 2015 election until his fingernails bleed.

* The reason, incidentally, why Keynsian economics is bunk. It's a fine theory, except for the fatal flaw of relying on politicians not to bribe electorates with cash giveaways during the boom times. This, ultimately, was the self-serving reason behind Brown's boast about abolishing boom and bust. Only if he had truly achieved that could he justify the punishment he was giving our national credit card at a time in the economic cycle when the venerable Keynes would insist we should have been paying down debt and stuffing tenners in all the mattresses in Downing Street.

[devilincarnate]

Originally Posted by Arthurgray50@blu

Chris, l have never dis agreed with any member (sometimes), but on this time, l think you are living 20 years ago.

I am 60 years old and have always worked hard to provide for my wife and family and l get really annoyed that under a former Tory government (Thatcher) we had policies forced on wand the terrible Poll Tax that crippled this country, forcing people to pay money that they could not afford, unemployment was up.

And now under another Tory government, forget about Clegg, who has no clue whats soever how to run a corner shop let alone a country.

We are going through the same problem, and l find myself going through the same problem, l have no savings now as they have paid bills, my job for example is with a major employer, but since the Tories came in, my job has been under threat TWICE, and we survive.

Don't want to say this, but the Tories are a rich mans party and always will be, and us the worker, are being trod on and cannot do anything to solve it - l hope and pray by the end of this year, Clegg has the bottle to pull the plug on this terrible coalition so that we can pick ourselves off the ground and try and make a life out of what is left of the pickings.

Arthur you should start reading this man's thread and it would help you with economics and what is fully going on?

http://www.dartmouth.edu/~blnchflr/

[Arthurgray50@blu]

So therefore the public, especially the poor have to suffer extreme hardship because of the stupidity of a coalition government that has brought in cuts straight away.

Lets put it this way the coalition have now been in power two years, and have another couple to go, in this time they have made severe cuts in everything going, the armed services have been cut down to the bone and have left it to the TA to protect our shores, the police service has been cut to such a point that the Met have had to draft in forces from other parts of the UK in such point that if you call 999 now you might not a PC.

The cuts to every major dept is getting so much that the government is picking those people that cannot fight back, that cannot be right.

I trust that Clegg has the bottle to stand up to Cameron, as it appears that Cameron is going to force through his plans to border reforms, which is against Clegg's wishes.

[Hugh]

"Left to the TA to protect our shores"?

Who's invading?

[Damien]

Originally Posted by Hugh

"Left to the TA to protect our shores"?

Who's invading?

Have you seen East London recently? The place is full of foreigners.

[Chris]

Originally Posted by Arthurgray50@blu

So therefore the public, especially the poor have to suffer extreme hardship because of the stupidity of a coalition government that has brought in cuts straight away.

For the love of Mike ...

Arthur, if cuts had not been made straight away, with what would we have paid all the soldiers, police officers and everyone else we're losing?

You have already told us what you think of the rates of tax you have to pay. You have railed against high tax on fuel and high rates of VAT. Yet you have also railed against the government that is avoiding raising those taxes even further by reducing the rate of spending.

You're a case study in cognitive dissonance. It's no wonder you get so cross.

[techguyone]

Originally Posted by Maggy J

We still have the problem of low turnout at elections..Which how we ended up with a blasted coalition in the first place.

That's so true, I think (from memory) if we get more than high 60's % we're doing well. Think how the last election may have gone if another 10% had bothered to vote.

http://www.ukpolitical.info/Turnout45.htm

You'd think in this day and age, they'd let you do internet voting, if they did I bet you'd see a huge take up .

[Chris]

Originally Posted by techguyone

That's so true, I think (from memory) if we get more than high 60's % we're doing well. Think how the last election may have gone if another 10% had bothered to vote.

http://www.ukpolitical.info/Turnout45.htm

You'd think in this day and age, they'd let you do internet voting, if they did I bet you'd see a huge take up .

Yes, in a few places you'd probably get the sort of turnout only previously seen in places like Tehran and Harare.

[Arthurgray50@blu]

i am not a betting man, but l give the coalition six more months, Clegg might be a puppet for Cameron, but the rest of the Lib Dems wont put up with Cameron's crap

[Chris]

Originally Posted by Arthurgray50@blu

i am not a betting man, but l give the coalition six more months, Clegg might be a puppet for Cameron, but the rest of the Lib Dems wont put up with Cameron's crap

A lot will depend on the mauling the parties get at their autumn conferences and what their backbench MPs get up to in Parliament after the summer recess. There's no doubt Dave and Nick want to hold it together, but their fate is not entirely in their own hands.

If there's a divorce - and it is possible, I think - then it is still unlikely to lead to an early election. An early election is not in Con or Lib interests. The Lib Dems in particular are facing oblivion on current polling and it is definitely better for them to sit it out until 2015. If the Lib Dems agreed to vote with the Government, or abstain, on important issues including the budget (what pundits call a "confidence and supply" arrangement) then the Tories could run a minority Government probably until 2015.

[Derek]

Originally Posted by Chris

Yes, in a few places you'd probably get the sort of turnout only previously seen in places like Tehran and Harare.

Or Tower Hamlets.

[techguyone]

I don't know about a divorce, but I do think that if the lib-dems want any more future credibility, then come the next election Cleg & anyone seen to embrace the coalition within the lib dems will be taken out back and shot, maybe just maybe the party will be able to move on, though I think for their '5 mins of fame' as junior partners they've put back their political party popularity by 15 years.

Cleggs certainly going to need a new job once this terms up I can't see his party keeping him on.

[Chris]

Originally Posted by techguyone

Cleggs certainly going to need a new job once this terms up I can't see his party keeping him on.

He can go crawling back to Brussels. They will welcome him with open tentacles.