Well, it looks like the terrorists have won

[Jimmy-J]

Originally Posted by Telly_

If you saw the TV pictures yesterday with about 20 fir engines, 30 police cars and anti terrorist squad vehicles, inflatable operations rooms, big yellow cages out on the motorway, tons of equipment out on display.

It was more a show of, were ready so don't try it an if you do try it were going to stop you with massive force.

But what if several incidents happen within minutes of each other, in the surrounding areas and other cities? Somehow, I don't think we would be ready for that, and that massive force you mention would be dramatically fragmented.

If there's going to be an attack, it'll probably be whilst the eyes of the world are on the Olympics. Only time will tell.

[Gary L]

Originally Posted by Jimmy-J

If there's going to be an attack, it'll probably be whilst the eyes of the world are on the Olympics. Only time will tell.

I think any normal terrorist would choose the olympics as their soap box opportunity. but if something like this episode were to crop up at the olympics (false alarm, and a bit OTT) it would cause so much distruption and fear that people would just abandon it and go home.

you could look at it as an observer that the reaction to this one is a sign that they are expecting it to happen.

[Jimmy-J]

Yeah, but they (security) could be concentrating too much on the obvious areas of attack, and the terrorists could use that as misdirection. But I'm fairly sure intelligence have already thought of that.

[Gary L]

Probably best not to go out really.

[Mick]

Originally Posted by Lew

Rubbish.

No it was not Rubbish.

Authorities acted appropriately. I still say smoke rising from a bag is not normal and even if asked by someone what it was doesn't mean the truth would be told.

Remember a Terrorist will lie to achieve their goal, killing plenty of people. Recall that the 911 Terrorist Attackers said to passengers on each of the planes that there was a bomb on board? Completely untrue, all they had were sharp objects and because back then Cockpit doors were open all they had to do was incapacitate the Pilots, use pepper spray to keep people coming forward and well what happened next, the rest is history.

[Derek]

Hmmmm, proving that 'ordinary' criminals aren't the only ones undone by forgetting that the smallest things can knacker their plans.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2012/ju...ds-weapons-car

Seven men have been arrested on suspicion of terror offences after the routine stop of a car by police on the M1 motorway in South Yorkshire.

Six, from the West Midlands and one from Kirklees in West Yorkshire, are in custody following a series of police raids after firearms, offensive weapons and other material was found hidden in the vehicle, which was impounded on Saturday on suspicion of having no insurance.

I'm sure here is an entirely innocent explanation for the guns and other things being in the car.

[Mick]

Originally Posted by Derek

Hmmmm, proving that 'ordinary' criminals aren't the only ones undone by forgetting that the smallest things can knacker their plans.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2012/ju...ds-weapons-car



I'm sure here is an entirely innocent explanation for the guns and other things being in the car.

I've heard reports on the News recently that Terrorists want to have a 'Mumbai' Style Terror attack on UK soil, where they shoot dead as many people as they can. So this was an unexpected but lucky find by the Police.

[Derek]

Originally Posted by Mick

I've heard reports on the News recently that Terrorists want to have a 'Mumbai' Style Terror attack on UK soil, where they shoot dead as many people as they can. So this was an unexpected but lucky find by the Police.

An active shooter scenario in the UK is pretty nightmarish. If an angry taxi driver can murder 12 people with 2 legally held guns a couple of trained and motivated terrorists with military style weaponry could kill hundreds.

[Russ]

Originally Posted by Derek

An active shooter scenario in the UK is pretty nightmarish. If an angry taxi driver can murder 12 people with 2 legally held guns a couple of trained and motivated terrorists with military style weaponry could kill hundreds.

Playing devil's advocate here, would part of the reason Bird managed to kill so many be because the place was so 'out in the sticks'? I would have thought that terrorists these days go for major targets in highly populated areas such as London. With my limited knowledge surely an armed response unit or whoever would be likely to get there quicker?

[Derek]

Originally Posted by Russ

Playing devil's advocate here, would part of the reason Bird managed to kill so many be because the place was so 'out in the sticks'? I would have thought that terrorists these days go for major targets in highly populated areas such as London. With my limited knowledge surely an armed response unit or whoever would be likely to get there quicker?

I could answer that but I quite like my job so I won't. Lets just say if they decided to start shooting outside the embassy district in London the effects would be different to say the centre of Blackpool, Leeds etc.

For a giggle you could do an FOI request to your local force and ask how many of their officers are firearms trained. Divide that by 5 and take a chunk off for sickness, leave, training etc. and you'll see how likely (or otherwise) it is an AFO will be on scene quickly.

Almost guaranteed the first cops on scene will be heavily armed with, erm, a hollow metal stick, some hot sauce in a can and a Hi-Viz jacket to make them nice and noticable and all they'll be able to do is provide updates on where the shooters are.

---------- Post added at 19:34 ---------- Previous post was at 19:22 ----------

Actually I did a bit of googling to check this. Picking on a random, non Met force in the UK.

http://www.thetelegraphandargus.co.u...s__every_day_/

Firearms operations by West Yorkshire Police are increasing each year, with armed officers now deployed every day,
The Force’s 156 firearms officers were sent on 1,512 authorised operations in 2009-10

156. Say they operate a 4 shift system so at any one time there are 39 on duty. Maybe 20% of them are not available for various reasons so you have 31 on duty at any one time.

West Yorkshire Police serve approximately 2.2 million people living in one of the five metropolitan districts. The physical area, of approximately 780 square miles

Draw your own conclusions from that.

[Russ]

Oh lordy

[Tim Deegan]

Originally Posted by RizzyKing

I just thought the whole m6 thing was a pathetic overreaction and would have expected our emergency services to be more professional and proportionate.

And what would you think if it had been a terrorist attack, and the police had done nothing?

With the heightened threat at the moment, it is better to be safe than sorry.

---------- Post added at 19:46 ---------- Previous post was at 19:44 ----------

Originally Posted by TheDaddy

Exploding underpants perhaps...

Or shoes!!!!!!

---------- Post added at 19:48 ---------- Previous post was at 19:46 ----------

Originally Posted by Gary L

Muslims don't smoke anyway. so nobody would have believed him anyway.

Some do

---------- Post added at 19:51 ---------- Previous post was at 19:48 ----------

Originally Posted by Russ

This close to the Olympics it's making me more convinced it's as much a statement of intent as a genuine operation. Would love to hear Derek's take on this but I feel he may not be permitted (or willing!) to comment

If he is still a serving police officer, then what he can tell you is very limited.

---------- Post added at 19:54 ---------- Previous post was at 19:51 ----------

Originally Posted by TheDaddy

These terrorists do want to kill us, as many of us as possible in as spectacular fashion as possible, they aren't terrorists in the traditional sense, they have no politics, no real message just hatred, could you ever see them making a.coded phone.call for instance

Spot on.....unlike the IRA who used to often send coded messages if the bomb was in a public area.

---------- Post added at 19:55 ---------- Previous post was at 19:54 ----------

Originally Posted by Telly_

If you saw the TV pictures yesterday with about 20 fir engines, 30 police cars and anti terrorist squad vehicles, inflatable operations rooms, big yellow cages out on the motorway, tons of equipment out on display.

It was more a show of, were ready so don't try it an if you do try it were going to stop you with massive force.


Formerly Telly_Bear.

No. It was a standard response to the incident that was suspected.

---------- Post added at 19:58 ---------- Previous post was at 19:55 ----------

Originally Posted by Osem

At a time like this the authorities are going to be damned if they underreact and damned if they overreact but the former is probably worse. Of course it's so hard to say what's an overreaction until the full facts of an event are known and at the time it's all happening, the authorities don't enjoy that luxury. If the coach had suddenly been blown up and bodies been strewn all over the motorway people would have been demanding a more robust response, not criticising it. Cast your minds back to what went on on 7/7 and you'll recall the initial reaction to events was very confused with all sorts of different claims/reports and it was ages before the full extent of what was going on became apparent. At that early stage, who could have predicted what resources were going to be required?

Sadly we all have to accept that the emergency services are in between a rock and a hard place in matters such as these and since the threat isn't going away anytime soon, we're all going to have to cope with more incidents like this one and the resulting inconvenience.

Excellent post...spot on!!!!!

---------- Post added at 19:59 ---------- Previous post was at 19:58 ----------

Originally Posted by Jimmy-J

But what if several incidents happen within minutes of each other, in the surrounding areas and other cities? Somehow, I don't think we would be ready for that, and that massive force you mention would be dramatically fragmented.

A few years ago...maybe!!!

---------- Post added at 20:00 ---------- Previous post was at 19:59 ----------

Originally Posted by Jimmy-J

Yeah, but they (security) could be concentrating too much on the obvious areas of attack, and the terrorists could use that as misdirection. But I'm fairly sure intelligence have already thought of that.

They have!

[Lew]

Originally Posted by Lew

Rubbish. It was an over-reaction. If it happened in the US we'd be having the usual "only in America" comments. Sneery enough for you?

I would like to apologise to Mick for this post. I was in a really irritable mood due to lack of sleep and should have known better than to post on forums in that state of mind. I feel really embarrassed by this post and I’ve let both myself and the forum down. Sorry Mick.

[Gary L]

Originally Posted by Lew

I would like to apologise to Mick for this post. I was in a really irritable mood due to lack of sleep and should have known better than to post on forums in that state of mind. I feel really embarrassed by this post and I’ve let both myself and the forum down. Sorry Mick.

No worries. at least you keep your job now

[Mick]

I am touched by your apology Lew. But let me say this. You have not let the forum down Lew. It is a human trait to have a bad day.