UK back in Recession

[Osem]

Originally Posted by Ignitionnet

I entirely agree that Labour are abysmal, however what relevance does this have to how badly the coalition are handling the economy?

They're the ones in charge, what Labour would do isn't actually the issue as they won't be in power until 2015, and it seems extremely likely that they will be in power in 2015. That we have the worst opposition in memory doesn't excuse the government being completely crap.

It doesn't and wasn't intended to. It was a reminder to the increasing number of people out there who seem to have very conveniently forgotten how utterly inept they were in either causing or presiding over the problems we now face. It was a reminder that Bliar and his cronies had 13 years to screw things up and that, given what's happened in the Eurozone since, expecting this govt. to have reversed all of that is entirely unrealistic. Make no mistake, I certainly don't think the current bunch have all the answers or haven't made mistakes, but I'd rather have them in power right now than Miliband's marauders who seem to have little idea what to do except rubbish their opposition.

For me this isn't about party politics. As I've already stated, I feel the situation we're in is so serious that we need the best brains and politicians of all parties to put their destructive rivalries aside and work together to sort this mess out. I still think the coalition has a chance of doing that but what's for sure is that the other realistic option of seeing Labour back in power would be a calamity.

Come 2015 I won't be blindly voting for Conservative, Lib Dem or anyone else - I never have done and never will. I'll be voting according to who I feel has the best chance of stopping us plunging over the precipice, if we haven't done so already. I'll be doing that even if it boils down to choosing the lesser of two evils, which it probably will sadly.

---------- Post added at 20:19 ---------- Previous post was at 20:07 ----------

Originally Posted by heero_yuy

Which shows that the Darling plan was really a load of dingo's kidney's anyway.

Yes, and I guarantee he'd have missed his targets by even more than the Con-Dems have missed theirs.

[Ignitionnet]

Originally Posted by Osem

Yes, and I guarantee he'd have missed his targets by even more than the Con-Dems have missed theirs.

That's a brave guarantee to make given the growth envisaged by it was based around quite different considerations.

---------- Post added at 21:16 ---------- Previous post was at 21:15 ----------

Originally Posted by heero_yuy

Which shows that the Darling plan was really a load of dingo's kidney's anyway.

We'll never know, will we?

---------- Post added at 21:17 ---------- Previous post was at 21:16 ----------

Originally Posted by Osem

Come 2015 I won't be blindly voting for Conservative, Lib Dem or anyone else - I never have done and never will. I'll be voting according to who I feel has the best chance of stopping us plunging over the precipice, if we haven't done so already. I'll be doing that even if it boils down to choosing the lesser of two evils, which it probably will sadly.

What precipice? Things aren't nearly as critical as the Conservatives would have us believe, and their austerity measures aren't close to enough to save us from them if things are as bad as they try and convince us.

[Damien]

Originally Posted by Osem

It doesn't and wasn't intended to. It was a reminder to the increasing number of people out there who seem to have very conveniently forgotten how utterly inept they were in either causing or presiding over the problems we now face. It was a reminder that Bliar and his cronies had 13 years to screw things up and that, given what's happened in the Eurozone since, expecting this govt. to have reversed all of that is entirely unrealistic. Make no mistake, I certainly don't think the current bunch have all the answers or haven't made mistakes, but I'd rather have them in power right now than Miliband's marauders who seem to have little idea what to do except rubbish their opposition.

But this is it. There is a acknowledgement of the circumstances that make it difficult for the current government to turn around the economy but the last government seem not to have that same luxury. Labour had a global recession to deal with just as the Conservatives have the lingering after-effects and the Euro crisis to deal with.

I don't think Governments can easily turn around an economy. It's a supertanker that they are trying to turn around by throwing rocks at it. They are at the mercy of events just as anyone else.

Yes, and I guarantee he'd have missed his targets by even more than the Con-Dems have missed theirs.

Wasn't Darling's plan similar to the US plan? Because their economy is turning around, albeit slowly.

[Cobbydaler]

Is it just me, or is -0.2% (that's -2/1000) not something to get too depressed about?

Why this obsession with endless growth?

[Osem]

Originally Posted by Ignitionnet

That's a brave guarantee to make given the growth envisaged by it was based around quite different considerations.

---------- Post added at 21:16 ---------- Previous post was at 21:15 ----------



We'll never know, will we?

---------- Post added at 21:17 ---------- Previous post was at 21:16 ----------



What precipice? Things aren't nearly as critical as the Conservatives would have us believe, and their austerity measures aren't close to enough to save us from them if things are as bad as they try and convince us.

Brave it may be but I'd stand by it and neither of us are ever going to find out so we'll have to agree to disagree eh.

The precipice I'm referring to is the Eurozone not the UK right now. Our position is far from good but thankfully not as dire as some other countries and that may be as much due to luck as judgement. I don't think the recent growth figures justify the rhetoric that's being bandied about but I do think that, in combination with what's going on elsewhere in Europe (which we cannot separate ourselves from), we're on the edge of a financial abyss. Time will tell and I hope I'm wrong.

---------- Post added at 22:30 ---------- Previous post was at 22:24 ----------

Originally Posted by Damien

But this is it. There is a acknowledgement of the circumstances that make it difficult for the current government to turn around the economy but the last government seem not to have that same luxury. Labour had a global recession to deal with just as the Conservatives have the lingering after-effects and the Euro crisis to deal with.

I don't think Governments can easily turn around an economy. It's a supertanker that they are trying to turn around by throwing rocks at it. They are at the mercy of events just as anyone else.


Wasn't Darling's plan similar to the US plan? Because their economy is turning around, albeit slowly.

Labour's profligacy, waste, ineptitude and gross regulatory failures exposed the UK to an extent which needn't have been the case. They gambled that borrowing and spending as if there was no tomorrow would keep them in power wich is all they were interested in. Sadly for us it did and thereby made our economy even more susceptible to the other, world, events you refer to.

The US is far from out of the woods in spite of the billions Obama's thrown at it.

[Damien]

Originally Posted by Osem

Labour's profligacy, waste and ineptitude and regulatory failures exposed the UK to an extent which needn't have been the case. They gambled that borrowing and spending as if there was no tomorrow would keep them in power. Sadly for us it did and thereby made our economy even more susceptible to other, world, events.

It did but it's all a bit vague. Regulatory failures is the most difficult as these were international organisations operating all over the place. There were few calls from tighter regulation and few from the Conservatives in opposition. An attempt to increase regulation at a time when banks were rolling in money would have been seen as counter-productive and hostile to business and they would have equally been attacked for that. There is quite a lot of hindsight there. I agree they should have cut the deficit and the debt whilst the money was coming in however.

At the end of the day these are the reasons Labour was voted out. Labour's incompetence doesn't excuse the Conservatives/Liberal Democrats from failing to improve the economy. They are now the Government. That Labour are perceived to be worse is also not an excuse, just means we have a poor choice at the next election.

It's been two years. The honeymoon is over.

The US is far from out of the woods in spite of the billions Obama's thrown at it.

Seems to be getting better month on month however. We've showed no progress at all. The car industry is getting better over there as well.

[Osem]

Originally Posted by Damien

It did but it's all a bit vague. Regulatory failures is the most difficult as these were international organisations operating all over the place. There were few calls from tighter regulation and few from the Conservatives in opposition. An attempt to increase regulation at a time when banks were rolling in money would have been seen as counter-productive and hostile to business and they would have equally been attacked for that. There is quite a lot of hindsight there. I agree they should have cut the deficit and the debt whilst the money was coming in however.



Seems to be getting better month on month however. We've showed no progress at all. The car industry is getting better over there as well.

Thw FSA a chocolate teapot and eventually admitted their failures. Nobody's saying the UK could have been immune from what was going on elsewhere but nobody other than the govt. of the time was culpable for the lack of regulation given that they'd had the time and the power to intervene. Brown was warned about the problems brewing and chose to ignore the bad news and keep on spending.

As for the US well I doubt if they were as encumbered by EU membership etc. as we are they'd be performing any better than the UK.

[Damien]

Originally Posted by Osem

As for the US well I doubt if they were as encumbered by EU membership etc. as we are they'd be performing any better than the UK.

It's not EU membership, it's the fact our banks and other industries are tied up with the rest of Europe that's the problem. We're exposed to their debt problems. We're not part of the Euro so the only way that harms us is the aforementioned exposure to the debt if the currency goes under.

We should look to see if anything they did could work here instead of continuing with the same plan that has done squat for the last year and a bit.

[mertle]

You know what I starting to believe something very sinister about all this.

I watched this 3 1/2 about banks the money men Its long listen but its frightening how they played governments.

Now initially BOE very powerful ugly private bank despite onus sounded government run. Now we can assume after banking act back in public hands. Some serious stuff on how banking works.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_9wYu...eature=related

I starting to think its neither fault going out on limb here as now seeing very a nasty picture what going off.

If we seeing indicators power banks posses IMF call we going into credit crunch 2. So the Quantative Easing from osbourne would not work as BOE has control of spending it.

http://news.sky.com/home/business/article/16212857

I will say this it wont matter who in power neither will be able to rectify it. As the whole thing setup which stinks.

Boom or bust is preogative the banks those who own the banks secret owners. Governments and us the people are there puppets.

We been duped bigtime until we all collectively wake up including politians. United world take the money men on and the banks. The sooner we get control back control the economy the better.

Recession is simply banks not lending, the booms created when banks release funds. Who when decides this its like a chess game some day it going to be checkmate. The money men make money when it happens as repossesions of business/housing happens. Same with wars they make profits from countries borrowing for a war effort.

They played the governments to get control of all governments. I dont trust advice which is effectively telling us to crash uk economy. As austerity will end up doing. There great saying if in doubt do nothing. That should been the case what was paramount was keep jobs make sure economy ticked.

So can we trust IMF anymore certainly bond holders who cracking whips shafting countries. If you dont think ultimate goal power who runs greece. The bond holders those pushing austerity to break countries knowing full well while they own banks freeze lending economy suffers. Who will be the unlisted secret names who got the banks lets have educated guess those who own the bonds the top 1%?.

Take it further down the road within 20 years banks/money men will control every country in the land as one by one they force there game on us all. Greed dictatorship no voting countries will not have Presidents, Prime Ministers, senates or MP's. We will have CEO's and board directors.

Its about world domination. They started the ball rolling when they served us crisis hoping to dupe governments into bailouts.

Governments will just tinker its not them who will sort the mess out it dont matter if your colour blue or red. Debt wont cease as debt there to control us by banks.

They know governments got to keep economy moving to do it goto use money buy getting into debt especially if banks deliberately not lending to businesses.

It might be crazy to think this maybe some posters might think its daft but it does add up. Tell me I am wrong as would love it to be the case.

[Hugh]

You do seem to have a penchant for conspiracy theories....

[mertle]

Originally Posted by Hugh

You do seem to have a penchant for conspiracy theories....

Believe me want it wrong but watch the vid he actually predicted all this that was 15 years before it happened.

All the I's and T's do add up now what there end game anybody guess I think its global ownership of countries. Why we all collectively being told to crash all the economies. When governments went to bail banks out they gave them oportunity. What purpose does it serve who gains Hugh.

So how did he predict something nobody saw coming. If those names got nothing hide why not reveal them. Why are the protected by royal charter.