Ryanair Censured

[Alan Fry]

Originally Posted by gazzae

They will still have to compete even if they buy a low-cost airline... or are you suggesting they use the profits from the low-cost airline to support the Full Service airline?

Also who is talking private jets? You are really in another world if you can't see how an extra £50-£100 would stop a lot of people flying.

If passengers want to fly then they can, but with a low cost carrier owned by a full service carrier

There will still be competition but between full service airlines and low cost airlines

---------- Post added at 17:48 ---------- Previous post was at 17:45 ----------

Originally Posted by Tim Deegan

You can still be elitist by thinking that you are too good to fly with budget airlines.

Other budget airlines have succeeded where BA failed. A budget airline run by BA would be just another budget airline, the same as the others. Can't you work that one out Alan?

So why could have they merged with Iberia then?

I am not too good to fly them, I just do not like to fly them

[Tim Deegan]

Originally Posted by Alan Fry

If passengers want to fly then they can, but with a low cost carrier owned by a full service carrier

There will still be competition but between full service airlines and low cost airlines

You are completely missing the point Alan. It doesn't matter who owns the airline, it would still be a budget airline, providing the budget airline service you hate.

If they tried improving the standards, then it would cost more money, and they wouldn't be able to compete, so they would go bust.

This is simple business sense, and should be easy to understand for someone in higher management of a large company

Originally Posted by Alan Fry

So why could have they merged with Iberia then?

As a senior manager you should know the difference between a merger and a takeover

I presume Iberia were also struggling, and gained from this merger. I don't know this for sure, but going by the fact that Palma Airport used to be dominated by Iberia. But is now dominated by Air Berlin, with hardly an Iberia plane in sight.

Originally Posted by Alan Fry

I am not too good to fly them, I just do not like to fly them

How do you know Alan??? A while ago you hadn't flown with them, but now you have flown with one budget airline, which happened to be the worst one. So tell us Alan, how can you judge them all??

[Alan Fry]

Originally Posted by Tim Deegan

You are completely missing the point Alan. It doesn't matter who owns the airline, it would still be a budget airline, providing the budget airline service you hate.

If they tried improving the standards, then it would cost more money, and they wouldn't be able to compete, so they would go bust.

This is simple business sense, and should be easy to understand for someone in higher management of a large company




As a senior manager you should know the difference between a merger and a takeover

I presume Iberia were also struggling, and gained from this merger. I don't know this for sure, but going by the fact that Palma Airport used to be dominated by Iberia. But is now dominated by Air Berlin, with hardly an Iberia plane in sight.




How do you know Alan??? A while ago you hadn't flown with them, but now you have flown with one budget airline, which happened to be the worst one. So tell us Alan, how can you judge them all??

But if they took over a budget airline, then the airlines would not have to reduce standards on their non-low-cost service, also BA are buting BMI as well, Air Berlin is not a budget airline and is part of the same alliance as BA/Iberia

I know I traveled on thr worse one, but even that put me off, some like budget airlines (like yourself) and some do not (like myself)

[Tim Deegan]

Originally Posted by Alan Fry

But if they took over a budget airline, then the airlines would not have to reduce standards on their non-low-cost service, also BA are buting BMI as well, Air Berlin is not a budget airline and is part of the same alliance as BA/Iberia

There are 4 main airline markets:

• Cargo
• Business/Sheduled
• Charter
• Budget, which is basically like a bus service

Many business passengers will usually travel with the likes of BA, although many are now complaining about BA's standards dropping.

Charter airlines are used mainly for package holidays.

Budget are a bus service by air.

Air Berlin are not part of the BA/Iberia group (unless this has only just happened). And although they are not a budget airline as such, they do dabble in that sector, with very cheap flights on some routes.

BA could learn a lot from Air Berlin, by using supply on demand. After all we are in a worldwide recession, so many business flights no longer go business class, they go budget instead. THey really nood to move with the times, and adjust accordingly.

Originally Posted by Alan Fry

I know I traveled on thr worse one, but even that put me off, some like budget airlines (like yourself) and some do not (like myself)

Yes you travelled on the worst one, so you are in no position to judge the others.

We all like to be pampered, not just you Alan. But for those who aren't rich, then it makes sense to go for the best value. When I fly trans atlantic, then I would rather have a comfortable seat, good entertainment, and a nice meal (or two). But if I'm flying out to may appatment in Mallorca, then it's a two hour flight (it takes longer to drive to visit my mother in Yorkshire). So I will usually just read a book, or look at the view, which when it is clear can make the time fly by. I can easily manage for two hours without a meal, but I can buy food if I want to.

The view is no better from a BA flight, than it is from a budget one:


You need to lear to understand business Alan. BA don't compete with the budget airlines, because they are stuck in the past. If they want to move on during a recession, then they need to follow Air Berlin's example Supply on demand

[Alan Fry]

Originally Posted by Tim Deegan

There are 4 main airline markets:

• Cargo
• Business/Sheduled
• Charter
• Budget, which is basically like a bus service

Many business passengers will usually travel with the likes of BA, although many are now complaining about BA's standards dropping.

Charter airlines are used mainly for package holidays.

Budget are a bus service by air.

Air Berlin are not part of the BA/Iberia group (unless this has only just happened). And although they are not a budget airline as such, they do dabble in that sector, with very cheap flights on some routes.

BA could learn a lot from Air Berlin, by using supply on demand. After all we are in a worldwide recession, so many business flights no longer go business class, they go budget instead. THey really nood to move with the times, and adjust accordingly.



Yes you travelled on the worst one, so you are in no position to judge the others.

We all like to be pampered, not just you Alan. But for those who aren't rich, then it makes sense to go for the best value. When I fly trans atlantic, then I would rather have a comfortable seat, good entertainment, and a nice meal (or two). But if I'm flying out to may appatment in Mallorca, then it's a two hour flight (it takes longer to drive to visit my mother in Yorkshire). So I will usually just read a book, or look at the view, which when it is clear can make the time fly by. I can easily manage for two hours without a meal, but I can buy food if I want to.

The view is no better from a BA flight, than it is from a budget one:


You need to lear to understand business Alan. BA don't compete with the budget airlines, because they are stuck in the past. If they want to move on during a recession, then they need to follow Air Berlin's example Supply on demand

What BA need to do is buy EasyJet along with what you have suggested, I accept a lot of people like to travel on Low cost airlines, but for now, I am yet to be convinced. However, for the end of the year I will give EasyJet a try
Also Air Berlin is part of the Oneworld airline alliance which also has American Airlines, BA and Iberia as well

Lastly, do you own or rent an apartment on Mallorca?

[Tim Deegan]

Originally Posted by Alan Fry

What BA need to do is buy EasyJet along with what you have suggested, I accept a lot of people like to travel on Low cost airlines, but for now, I am yet to be convinced. However, for the end of the year I will give EasyJet a try
Also Air Berlin is part of the Oneworld airline alliance which also has American Airlines, BA and Iberia as well

BA can't afford to buy Easyjet, and would probably ruin it if they did.

Originally Posted by Alan Fry

Lastly, do you own or rent an apartment on Mallorca?

I don't know what that has got to do with you, or the subject issue?

[Alan Fry]

Originally Posted by Tim Deegan

BA can't afford to buy Easyjet, and would probably ruin it if they did.



I don't know what that has got to do with you, or the subject issue?

Well if I was running BA I would buy Easyjet and let them be, after all flying low cost or not, BA will get the profit

[Chris]

Originally Posted by Alan Fry

Well if I was running BA I would buy Easyjet and let them be, after all flying low cost or not, BA will get the profit

That's why you're not running BA, or any other large business. You are quick to offer an opinion but if your prodigious post rate has proved anything, it's that you largely comment from your position in orbit around some planet other than this one.

Publicly-traded companies like BA cannot just buy up other companies in order to 'get the profit'. Buying another company on that scale is a vastly complex and expensive business. It costs a lot of money to do it - money that belongs to BA shareholders who could, if they wished, simply take out of BA by selling their BA shares and then invest in Easyjet instead. That would be a rather more efficient use of capital.

A PLC's remit is to enhance shareholder value, not destroy it, or even hold it static (which in a market economy is the same as destroying it). BA would have to show how buying Easyjet would *improve* return on capital employed. It won't try to buy that company because it's unlikely it old show any such thing.

Oh, and the competition commission would probably have something to say about it too.

[Tim Deegan]

Originally Posted by Alan Fry

Well if I was running BA I would buy Easyjet and let them be, after all flying low cost or not, BA will get the profit

Well you aren't, and you never will be (especially after seing your lack of business sense).

So you think that they should buy a sucessful airline, to prop up a badly managed one??? Now that is a recipe for disaster

[Alan Fry]

Originally Posted by Chris

That's why you're not running BA, or any other large business. You are quick to offer an opinion but if your prodigious post rate has proved anything, it's that you largely comment from your position in orbit around some planet other than this one.

Publicly-traded companies like BA cannot just buy up other companies in order to 'get the profit'. Buying another company on that scale is a vastly complex and expensive business. It costs a lot of money to do it - money that belongs to BA shareholders who could, if they wished, simply take out of BA by selling their BA shares and then invest in Easyjet instead. That would be a rather more efficient use of capital.

A PLC's remit is to enhance shareholder value, not destroy it, or even hold it static (which in a market economy is the same as destroying it). BA would have to show how buying Easyjet would *improve* return on capital employed. It won't try to buy that company because it's unlikely it old show any such thing.

Oh, and the competition commission would probably have something to say about it too.

BA could say that they will gain a large share of a market they do not operate, also there could be savings in a BA/EasyJet merger, it would also increase its profits as well, as for competition, there is Ryanair and Virgin Atlantic

[Tim Deegan]

Originally Posted by Chris

That's why you're not running BA, or any other large business. You are quick to offer an opinion but if your prodigious post rate has proved anything, it's that you largely comment from your position in orbit around some planet other than this one.

Publicly-traded companies like BA cannot just buy up other companies in order to 'get the profit'. Buying another company on that scale is a vastly complex and expensive business. It costs a lot of money to do it - money that belongs to BA shareholders who could, if they wished, simply take out of BA by selling their BA shares and then invest in Easyjet instead. That would be a rather more efficient use of capital.

A PLC's remit is to enhance shareholder value, not destroy it, or even hold it static (which in a market economy is the same as destroying it). BA would have to show how buying Easyjet would *improve* return on capital employed. It won't try to buy that company because it's unlikely it old show any such thing.

Oh, and the competition commission would probably have something to say about it too.

Exactly

---------- Post added at 16:11 ---------- Previous post was at 16:10 ----------

Originally Posted by Alan Fry

BA could say that they will gain a large share of a market they do not operate, also there could be savings in a BA/EasyJet merger, it would also increase its profits as well, as for competition, there is Ryanair and Virgin Atlantic

Get your head out of the clouds Alan, and actually read what people are telling you.

[Alan Fry]

Originally Posted by Tim Deegan

Get your head out of the clouds Alan, and actually read what people are telling you.

I am reading what people are telling me and I have responded, BA needs to take over Easyjet to improve its financial performace

[Chris]

Originally Posted by Alan Fry

BA could say that they will gain a large share of a market they do not operate, also there could be savings in a BA/EasyJet merger, it would also increase its profits as well, as for competition, there is Ryanair and Virgin Atlantic

If BA argued they could make cost savings with a combined BA/Easyjet company, they could not be said to be leaving Easyjet 'untouched' as you earlier suggested. You're just making all this up as you go along, aren't you!

[Alan Fry]

Originally Posted by Chris

If BA argued they could make cost savings with a combined BA/Easyjet company, they could not be said to be leaving Easyjet 'untouched' as you earlier suggested. You're just making all this up as you go along, aren't you!

I meant, EasyJet will remain a low cost airline, but its back office and stuff like check in etc would be were there could be savings (along with BAs as well)

Ba and Easyjet will also learn the best practises from each other as well

[Tim Deegan]

Originally Posted by Alan Fry

I am reading what people are telling me and I have responded, BA needs to take over Easyjet to improve its financial performace

They won't, and they can't!!!!!