western economy failure down to crony capitalism ?

[mertle]

http://www.prospectmagazine.co.uk/20...ness-policies/

This very good read insight maybe why the western world economy into meltdown and collapse.

How america in 1940's recovered its economy in the 40's as it realised big businesses was anti competitive and damaging for the economy as whole.

Why lessons not been learned why big in bsiness is bad cosyness of governments is bad too.

I think the article spot on it shows we can turn things around.

More people see common sense maybe we will se people who got the power to change things will Finally call on some bottle shake things up.

[Hugh]

It's a good article, with some very salient points.

[mertle]

Originally Posted by Hugh

It's a good article, with some very salient points.

Indeed hugh I was suprised who wrote it.

I hope David Davis can influence his master to his thinking are we actually seeing change in thinking to the issue.

[Damien]

Originally Posted by mertle

Indeed hugh I was suprised who wrote it.

I hope David Davis can influence his master to his thinking are we actually seeing change in thinking to the issue.

Unless he still holds a grudge over losing the leadership to him, forget how long ago that was now.

[Osem]

Do you think he would have written it if he'd become PM ?

[Maggy J]

Originally Posted by Hugh

It's a good article, with some very salient points.

Agreed! However I doubt any of the major parties will even read it..

[mertle]

Originally Posted by Osem

Do you think he would have written it if he'd become PM ?

would hoped this believe and idea views would been the same. Fully believe thats why concervatives did not vote him as there leader.

Sadly those like cameron who got the gift of gob get to be leaders.

Look how people preceive Ed milbrand he deemed weak because he dont act like cameron. He dont rattle cages he dont shout convincingly. He quiet compared to all razz cameron.

You might have the best ideas the best policy thinking. However you wont get to be leader if you cant talk the game. Parties want an all rounder today in the main is good conductor.

Look at past leaders both side see those who was precieved weak those who was deemed good. Thatcher, Major leadership more razz from thatcher major bit quiet.

Blair and Brown again same its a circus and if you cant play the orchestra you will be deemed weak. I am sure polical school tells them to by animated.

Maybe its peoples fault they identify that type leadership those who truly good policies like David Davis end up being backbenchers.

Its sad politics is circus today.

---------- Post added at 00:31 ---------- Previous post was at 00:18 ----------

Originally Posted by Maggy J

Agreed! However I doubt any of the major parties will even read it..

That sadly would be horrific oversight by political powers.

They need to read it digest it make it happen. The failure not too, is not worth thinking about. World in runaway train heading for end of the road. We continue the present course it will crash.

I listened to RBS boss admitting the gravy train is at end he see the big picture too. fear the greedy players do anyway trying to milk the cow before she drops dead.

If you put all the money from western economies in one pot then scaled it by wages/wealth. I bet people would be shocked how it stacked in percentages. The more they squeeze the bottom the less goods are bought we will see high street implode. Sales will seize jobs will go and economy will noze dive. Spiral starting once out of control capitalism will collapse.

[heero_yuy]

All the great civilisations and economies over the centuries have eventually torn themselves apart either over internal strife or from external invasions. We probably don't need to worry about the latter unless ET and his chums come a knocking and asking for a cup of water.

Egypt, Greece, Rome: Each in it's turn rose to heights of sophistication and then often through decadence and decay finally collapsed.

It is the height of vanity to assume that we could be immune from a similar catastroph.

[Alan Fry]

For the past 30 years we have followed the model of free market crony capitalism and neo-liberal democracy and look what it has brought us, nothing but a massively increasing wealth gap, lower wages (in real terms) for most of us, the (continuing) rapid increase in the wealth of the business and political elite, the decline of the welfare state and several rescissions and in our case a depression!

We have to pay out taxes and face wage and benefit cuts at a time of rising prices and yet the rich have never had it so good, their wealth is rising and they are have a very good and luxurious lifestyle, they can afford expensive property, yachts and planes and goods!

The Wealthy and Business have infiltrated the UK, USA and most of the world’s political systems for their benefit and our expense, a side effect of this of this is that social mobility is at a low point. This is one of the main causes of last year’s riots and demonstrations and along with the Eurozone crisis.

Yet they insist in public spending, welfare health and education cuts and underinvestment and yet we have a serious problems with tax evasion, trillions each year are stolen from the government!

Another effect is that our politicians care only for the rich and not for us, the media aid them with propaganda from Rupert Murdoch (who I would describe as the political and business elites press secretary) and other media barons!

I suggest that to reform business, we need a global government that will care only for the ordinary people and not for the wealthy, we need to old order to go and we need to reorganise and monopolize, nationalize and even mutualization of the private sector and a less business friendly and much larger sector and that is just the start!

[mertle]

Alan Fry you make some good points but I am not against competition although key infrastructe should not be competition place and under protection of government.

World wide government interesting concept but as we seen in europe it would not work due to selfish interests.

The other side is greece little greece getting crushed by powers on vanity. in efect factions would never work together for the good economy.

In ideal world a loaf bread should not cost different price even through UK. House should be the same whether in london or newcastle its bricks and mortar.

For worldwide system the same would have to apply but it would mean sacrafices from all levels to comply. Nobody would want to lose out. We talked about the expensive britain how house market strangling country to slow death. Bet soon there compulsary house market price structure. Where millions would suddenly see there house devalued they would riot or march. They see it as investment not home they dont think there next home will be cheaper they see the loss.

What we do need is business regulations act on takeovers more ban hostile takeovers. Ban firms who prime goal buy business strip them sell them. More businesses around independant creates competition in real world less big companies the better. Business atitudes change.

I firmly think the whole mess is rescuable but it needs alot bottle from people who in position to change things.

Cameron acuses us anti business we not we anti business who anti competitive, greed mentality out there.

Prime example is the workfare why cant businesses pay for training why are businesses wanting instant trained workforce. Surely its there own future they harm by this lazy atitude. This why atitudes must change. The problem slowly come to head the demise of aprenticeships the excuse rivals nicked the best but those would steel from smaller companies. It needed regulation not destroyed.

[Anonymouse]

No. Not a global government - at our species' current stage of social development, that's a cure worse than the disease. I offer the EU as proof of this. Different societies and economies are too different for it to work. A global government implies a global economy, a one-size-fits-all approach - if it doesn't work just in Europe, and it clearly doesn't, how can it possibly work for the entire world?

The only way it might work is if governments listen to Clarke (Imperial Earth), Adams (The Hitch-Hiker's Guide To The Galaxy) and Heinlein (Starship Troopers) and put people in government who don't want to be there, and definitely not people who do. Further, they must be in there to help the governed, not to feather their own nests. How the hell can we ensure that? This is why I had high hopes for Y2K to bring down the Establishment (hi, Echelon, I'm still here, talkin' subversion as always!) and let us build something new. I agree that the current order must be dismantled - by force if necessary - before anything new can be built in the way of society. Those in power will not relinquish it easily or willingly. They never do.

(I hesitate to mention Chancellor Palpatine's little speech to Anakin Skywalker here, but dammit, the man had a point!)

But I really can't see it happening, short of some global disaster - asteroid strike, for example. On the other hand, if that happens we'll have a damn sight more to worry about than the state of society...

[Alan Fry]

Originally Posted by mertle

Alan Fry you make some good points but I am not against competition although key infrastructe should not be competition place and under protection of government.

World wide government interesting concept but as we seen in europe it would not work due to selfish interests.

The other side is greece little greece getting crushed by powers on vanity. in efect factions would never work together for the good economy.

In ideal world a loaf bread should not cost different price even through UK. House should be the same whether in london or newcastle its bricks and mortar.

For worldwide system the same would have to apply but it would mean sacrafices from all levels to comply. Nobody would want to lose out. We talked about the expensive britain how house market strangling country to slow death. Bet soon there compulsary house market price structure. Where millions would suddenly see there house devalued they would riot or march. They see it as investment not home they dont think there next home will be cheaper they see the loss.

What we do need is business regulations act on takeovers more ban hostile takeovers. Ban firms who prime goal buy business strip them sell them. More businesses around independant creates competition in real world less big companies the better. Business atitudes change.

I firmly think the whole mess is rescuable but it needs alot bottle from people who in position to change things.

Cameron acuses us anti business we not we anti business who anti competitive, greed mentality out there.

Prime example is the workfare why cant businesses pay for training why are businesses wanting instant trained workforce. Surely its there own future they harm by this lazy atitude. This why atitudes must change. The problem slowly come to head the demise of aprenticeships the excuse rivals nicked the best but those would steel from smaller companies. It needed regulation not destroyed.

In times like these I feel that the world needs to change its social, political and economic systems

If we had a “compulsory house market price structure� then it would be compensated by higher wages

Not all takeovers are bad, some are very good and we need more rights for worker and better regulation!

---------- Post added at 14:03 ---------- Previous post was at 13:59 ----------

Originally Posted by Anonymouse

No. Not a global government - at our species' current stage of social development, that's a cure worse than the disease. I offer the EU as proof of this. Different societies and economies are too different for it to work. A global government implies a global economy, a one-size-fits-all approach - if it doesn't work just in Europe, and it clearly doesn't, how can it possibly work for the entire world?

The only way it might work is if governments listen to Clarke (Imperial Earth), Adams (The Hitch-Hiker's Guide To The Galaxy) and Heinlein (Starship Troopers) and put people in government who don't want to be there, and definitely not people who do. Further, they must be in there to help the governed, not to feather their own nests. How the hell can we ensure that? This is why I had high hopes for Y2K to bring down the Establishment (hi, Echelon, I'm still here, talkin' subversion as always!) and let us build something new. I agree that the current order must be dismantled - by force if necessary - before anything new can be built in the way of society. Those in power will not relinquish it easily or willingly. They never do.

(I hesitate to mention Chancellor Palpatine's little speech to Anakin Skywalker here, but dammit, the man had a point!)

But I really can't see it happening, short of some global disaster - asteroid strike, for example. On the other hand, if that happens we'll have a damn sight more to worry about than the state of society...

The EU is not a sovereign nation and its problems are caused by a lack of integration in the first place, There has been on trial or attempt to create one. It would allow us to have a fresh start politically and economically. Which is what we need right now!

It would help enforce global labour and business standards, so that the rich cannot away from it, we have a globalised economic system, we also need a globalised poltical system!

[Hugh]

But in order for the EU to be totally integrated, wouldn't that take a vote by citizens of each of the countries?

What if one (or more) of the countries didn't want to be integrated.

[heero_yuy]

Originally Posted by Alan Fry

we also need a globalised poltical system!

Earth Sphere United Nation (Scroll down a bit)

Seems I heard all this before.

There'll always be some small faction that won't play ball.

[Alan Fry]

Originally Posted by Hugh

But in order for the EU to be totally integrated, wouldn't that take a vote by citizens of each of the countries?

What if one (or more) of the countries didn't want to be integrated.

A vote could work if it only take a majority of EU members (or a majority of EU citizens) to get a yes or no vote!

For example if 14 out of the 27 EU Members voted yes, then it would be a yes result!

---------- Post added at 14:25 ---------- Previous post was at 14:24 ----------

Originally Posted by heero_yuy

Earth Sphere United Nation (Scroll down a bit)

Seems I heard all this before.

There'll always be some small faction that won't play ball.

But if most agree that it can work!