western economy failure down to crony capitalism ?

[Hugh]

Originally Posted by Alan Fry

A vote could work if it only take a majority of EU members (or a majority of EU citizens) to get a yes or no vote!

For example if 14 out of the 27 EU Members voted yes, then it would be a yes result!

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But if most agree that it can work!

Bless....

So if, out of the approx 500 million EU voters, the 14 smallest (in population) voted yes, and the 13 largest (in population) voted no, the "yes' vote wins?

For instance, Malta, Luxembourg, Cyprus, Estonia, Slovenia, Latvia, Lithuania, Ireland, Finland, Slovakia, Denmark, Bulgaria, Austria, and Sweden have a total population of approx 60 million, are you stating their votes would outweigh the other approx 440 million?

[Alan Fry]

Originally Posted by Hugh

Bless....

So if, out of the approx 500 million EU voters, the 14 smallest (in population) voted yes, and the 13 largest (in population) voted no, the "yes' vote wins?

For instance, Malta, Luxembourg, Cyprus, Estonia, Slovenia, Latvia, Lithuania, Ireland, Finland, Slovakia, Denmark, Bulgaria, Austria, and Sweden have a total population of approx 60 million, are you stating their votes would outweigh the other approx 440 million?

My preference would be a overall EU citzens vote, like if a majority of the combinded EU population voted yes, then the result would be yes!

[Hugh]

So if the majority of the whole EU wanted it, but a majority in a country didn't, what then?

[Taf]

Shifting a lot of industrial production to the Far East from The West has been a major mistake AFAIC, especially when they want to then sell all that product to the West where many will be unemployed because there is little industrial work, and therefore unable to afford the products!

The West has shown in recent years that relying on national income from banking for GDP is a very big mistake, and relying on credit in all its forms has been building a bubble that HAD to burst at some point.

More and more money earned in countries ends up transferred elsewhere in the world, quite often to countries with lower costs-of-living, fuelling inflation in those countries, and thus mass population exoduses in search of better incomes, usually to The West where they percieve those "better incomes" can be earned.

---------- Post added at 15:55 ---------- Previous post was at 15:52 ----------

Originally Posted by Hugh

So if the majority of the whole EU wanted it, but a majority in a country didn't, what then?

Rewritten as:

"So if the majority of the whole USA wanted it, but a majority in a US State didn't, what then?"

... and it's easy to see what happens... Federal political control that swings back and forth at most elections between a polarised voting population.

[heero_yuy]

Originally Posted by Hugh

So if the majority of the whole EU wanted it, but a majority in a country didn't, what then?

Greece?

[Hugh]

Originally Posted by Taf

Shifting a lot of industrial production to the Far East from The West has been a major mistake AFAIC, especially when they want to then sell all that product to the West where many will be unemployed because there is little industrial work, and therefore unable to afford the products!

The West has shown in recent years that relying on national income from banking for GDP is a very big mistake, and relying on credit in all its forms has been building a bubble that HAD to burst at some point.

More and more money earned in countries ends up transferred elsewhere in the world, quite often to countries with lower costs-of-living, fuelling inflation in those countries, and thus mass population exoduses in search of better incomes, usually to The West where they percieve those "better incomes" can be earned.

---------- Post added at 15:55 ---------- Previous post was at 15:52 ----------



Rewritten as:

"So if the majority of the whole USA wanted it, but a majority in a US State didn't, what then?"

... and it's easy to see what happens... Federal political control that swings back and forth at most elections between a polarised voting population.

But the US is a Federal State - the EU isn't...

[Taf]

Originally Posted by Hugh

But the US is a Federal State - the EU isn't...

Yet.

[Hugh]

But that is what Alan's hypothetical vote is about (a vote to form a Federal Europe), thus my query....

[Taf]

When have they really cared about the voters? It's a bosses' club that they want to take all the way to a federal state that they can control easier to make more money for themselves.

We were just damned lucky not to get fully involved in the euro, because once they control the money, they control most of the power. And they broke their own rules to make sure they stayed in power.

[Alan Fry]

Originally Posted by Hugh

So if the majority of the whole EU wanted it, but a majority in a country didn't, what then?

Then the country will have to agree with it because a majority of the EU popluation wanted it!


Remember if there was a United States of Europe (or World), then they will still have their own state and they can still run their local affairs (like the USA for example)!

---------- Post added at 11:46 ---------- Previous post was at 11:43 ----------

Originally Posted by Taf

Shifting a lot of industrial production to the Far East from The West has been a major mistake AFAIC, especially when they want to then sell all that product to the West where many will be unemployed because there is little industrial work, and therefore unable to afford the products!

The West has shown in recent years that relying on national income from banking for GDP is a very big mistake, and relying on credit in all its forms has been building a bubble that HAD to burst at some point.

More and more money earned in countries ends up transferred elsewhere in the world, quite often to countries with lower costs-of-living, fuelling inflation in those countries, and thus mass population exoduses in search of better incomes, usually to The West where they percieve those "better incomes" can be earned.

---------- Post added at 15:55 ---------- Previous post was at 15:52 ----------



Rewritten as:

"So if the majority of the whole USA wanted it, but a majority in a US State didn't, what then?"

... and it's easy to see what happens... Federal political control that swings back and forth at most elections between a polarised voting population.

What you are saying make a lot of sense, this is why we need a global government sooner rather than later, we need decent, high paying jobs all over the world!

Are you also saying that the all the US should become independent of the USA?

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If we can convince the world that a global goernment will be a good thing, then it can work, developing nations will vote for this so they can get better and more jobs with global labour, tax and wealfare standards, and people like the Kurds will vote for it, because it will give them their own state etc!

[mertle]

certainly would ofset tax havens nip them in the bud federal world. Doubt it would get off the mark too many politicians with blood on there hands.

I watched few moons ago there is country in the vatican its a courtyard or door with small room. Apparantly its one the richest in the world due to people put money in. I think if we have to have unity wish its on tax level. Finances should be collected via outgoing transactions therefore stopping at the source. If they want money then show passport if they seen to be english tax goes to UK government. It would mean banks to be more stringently monitored.

The europe union due to issues was on hiding for nothing my fear the collapse could be bad news. I am sure europe union effectively kept away another european war. Athough we cant say if cold war would detoriated with no union its speculation by me it likely would have.

If we as nations cant unite europe we aint got cat in hells worldwide.

[Taf]

Originally Posted by Alan Fry

Are you also saying that the all the US should become independent of the USA?

The USA is a federal collection of states who have a lot of internal power, but band together under the federal flag for security, foreign policy, etc.

The EU is similar, but the "federal" power is being given to unelected persons and bodies with their own political and financial whims and ideologies.

I have no idea who my MEP is, neither do I care much, as once they are elected to the Gravy Train they seem to ignore us completely and just toe the Brussels/Bruxelles line. Ditto our local MPs I suppose.

Our form of democracy is far from perfect. Whoever you vote for, a politician always wins.

[Alan Fry]

Originally Posted by Taf

The USA is a federal collection of states who have a lot of internal power, but band together under the federal flag for security, foreign policy, etc.

The EU is similar, but the "federal" power is being given to unelected persons and bodies with their own political and financial whims and ideologies.

I have no idea who my MEP is, neither do I care much, as once they are elected to the Gravy Train they seem to ignore us completely and just toe the Brussels/Bruxelles line. Ditto our local MPs I suppose.

Our form of democracy is far from perfect. Whoever you vote for, a politician always wins.

My version of a Global government would be largely like the USA with some improvements!

[Taf]

First step would be to remove religion from the world.

And that won't be easy as long as there some who dominate others through lies, superstition and fear (as many politicians also do).

There are muslims who are hoping we will all unite under their religious rules with no democracy, but if they can't convert us they will kill us instead. But then again, there are so many warring versions of islam that they might wipe each other out long before that.

[Alan Fry]

Originally Posted by Taf

First step would be to remove religion from the world.

And that won't be easy as long as there some who dominate others through lies, superstition and fear (as many politicians also do).

There are muslims who are hoping we will all unite under their religious rules with no democracy, but if they can't convert us they will kill us instead. But then again, there are so many warring versions of islam that they might wipe each other out long before that.

Not all muslims are like that, but the same would also apply to Christianity!