Disabled people face unlimited unpaid work or cuts in benefit

[RizzyKing]

In some recent posts i have allowed my current bout of depression to come through more then i like. If you wish to think of it as "my free ride coming to an end" so be it. Truth is though concern for how things are going has deepened it but is not the cause of it and never has been. I have also stated many times we need to combat ignorance and intolerence with education so i will try a bit of that.

I am depressed right now because i spend every single day in varying levels of pain i have meds to help me but the truth is they don't cime close to combatting my pain. Every day i sometimes feel like just collapsing and crying no matter what i do i cannot escape it i cannot run from it snd i cannot fight it. It is relentless it is unending it limits me in what i can do, it stops me sleeping i have months of insomnia followed by months of extreme fatigue. I then have people who havn't got a single clue deciding my life for me i have other groups of people judging me and feeling qualified to tell me what i deserve or should get. Yes my free ride is so easy i cannot believe how easy i have had it lucky me. I am my own worst enemy my two biggest periods of physical degradation came after attending training schemes to improve my chances of getting a job. Because of my urge to work and do what i felt i had to do to get a job.

You may say i am one person but my life is like more people then some of you realise on incapacity. We don't want a damn free ride we won't to work and be normal but through no fault of ours we have bodies that won't allow us.

This scheme will do more harm then good but don't worry we won't embarass you by letting you see how bad we are or have been affected because we never have we will go to our homes shut the door and deal with it.

[martyh]

Originally Posted by RizzyKing

In some recent posts i have allowed my current bout of depression to come through more then i like. If you wish to think of it as "my free ride coming to an end" so be it. Truth is though concern for how things are going has deepened it but is not the cause of it and never has been. I have also stated many times we need to combat ignorance and intolerence with education so i will try a bit of that.

I am depressed right now because i spend every single day in varying levels of pain i have meds to help me but the truth is they don't cime close to combatting my pain. Every day i sometimes feel like just collapsing and crying no matter what i do i cannot escape it i cannot run from it snd i cannot fight it. It is relentless it is unending it limits me in what i can do, it stops me sleeping i have months of insomnia followed by months of extreme fatigue. I then have people who havn't got a single clue deciding my life for me i have other groups of people judging me and feeling qualified to tell me what i deserve or should get. Yes my free ride is so easy i cannot believe how easy i have had it lucky me. I am my own worst enemy my two biggest periods of physical degradation came after attending training schemes to improve my chances of getting a job. Because of my urge to work and do what i felt i had to do to get a job.

You may say i am one person but my life is like more people then some of you realise on incapacity. We don't want a damn free ride we won't to work and be normal but through no fault of ours we have bodies that won't allow us.

This scheme will do more harm then good but don't worry we won't embarass you by letting you see how bad we are or have been affected because we never have we will go to our homes shut the door and deal with it.

Stop taking it personally Rizzy. SOME disabled people are perfectly capable of working as well you know .

[mertle]

Originally Posted by RizzyKing

In some recent posts i have allowed my current bout of depression to come through more then i like. If you wish to think of it as "my free ride coming to an end" so be it. Truth is though concern for how things are going has deepened it but is not the cause of it and never has been. I have also stated many times we need to combat ignorance and intolerence with education so i will try a bit of that.

I am depressed right now because i spend every single day in varying levels of pain i have meds to help me but the truth is they don't cime close to combatting my pain. Every day i sometimes feel like just collapsing and crying no matter what i do i cannot escape it i cannot run from it snd i cannot fight it. It is relentless it is unending it limits me in what i can do, it stops me sleeping i have months of insomnia followed by months of extreme fatigue. I then have people who havn't got a single clue deciding my life for me i have other groups of people judging me and feeling qualified to tell me what i deserve or should get. Yes my free ride is so easy i cannot believe how easy i have had it lucky me. I am my own worst enemy my two biggest periods of physical degradation came after attending training schemes to improve my chances of getting a job. Because of my urge to work and do what i felt i had to do to get a job.

You may say i am one person but my life is like more people then some of you realise on incapacity. We don't want a damn free ride we won't to work and be normal but through no fault of ours we have bodies that won't allow us.

This scheme will do more harm then good but don't worry we won't embarass you by letting you see how bad we are or have been affected because we never have we will go to our homes shut the door and deal with it.

just ignore them try relax bud sadly too many ignorant to disibilities sad fact some just dont understand.

I agree though this will definately do harm. It should be completely voluntary with no recourse for anybody who dont (only the individual knows how he feels upto doing something or his medical advisor why cant government and individuals see that. Those who pullout after trying but found it too much both should be not sanctioned. You accepted those either in suport or wag are disabled enough what more do these cretins want.

There is stupidity at highest order by society wonder how many businesses would like people phone up on the morning telling them they very ill as the effort took too much out of them. By Heck it will happen. I hate the idea of the terminally ill be treated with distane.

Government goto understand when docs give them timeframes it aint set in stone. I read one local paper gave him 9 months he lasted 2 months. Crikey do governments think illnesses and death runs as smooth as a clock.

Cameron as anyone should know yet he allows this via his own blood hand.

[Osem]

I suggest anyone who's really concerned about this issue contacts their MP raise their concerns and report the response they get. CF is great but I'm not sure how many of the great and the good pop their heads in...

[dilligaf1701]

Originally Posted by Osem

I suggest anyone who's really concerned about this issue contacts their MP raise their concerns and report the response they get. CF is great but I'm not sure how many of the great and the good pop their heads in...

'There are far too many disabled people who choose to live on benefits as a lifestyle choice - the government is committed to helping them into work.'

Alistair Burt.

[RizzyKing]

You tell me not to take it personally Marty trouble is it is personal it's very personal and were the same sort of attacks being directed at you i assure you it would become very personal. Unlike many i cannot leave a troublesome employer and go work for someone else I tried I am stuck on benefit and now it seems me and everyone else is to be a political football. Fairness what fairness I have always said I wouldn't wish my illness on anyone but I now have a growing list. Just hope Marty that you never need the system but as a tradesman your in the higher group for needing things like incapacity benefit.

[Chrysalis]

Originally Posted by peanut

I find there that the term disabled can be used quite liberally, but there is 2 sides to it. When I hear that disabled can be put to work a part of me totally agrees, the part that instantly think of those termed disabled that is.

To put it clearly, I do not class myself as disabled, I see or used to think disabled means those in wheelchairs, those handicapped by certain means, loss of limbs etc. But people that can and do live relatively normal and have to say healthy lives. I see those people often needing help to get back into work, by given a chance and for that I can not see much a problem if that chance is given fairly and not by (quote Hugh etc) as work experience, I do not see workfare as work experience in any way.

As I do not class myself as 'disabled' as the term as quoted by others is state has/is being used loosely, but on the other hand I could be far more disabled than those in wheelchairs etc yet. Who defines who is and isn't disabled? I know for sure (I deleted the word probably and anything like it), that anyone who live my life for a day would change their minds very, very quickly if they have doubt on whether someone who looks fine on the outside and doesn't suit the term disabled or think it's used unfairly.

I still struggle with people who aren't affected by any of the new measures or 'threats' so be true or not, it's all besides the point. I personally don't care to be honest, it does affect me, and if people don't shout up about it now then it WILL get worse, so I'm glad people are shouting about it now before it becomes law etc.

I'm sick of hearing terms like free ride is over.. Work experience...Disabled term used too widely and I can go on. All I can say is those that with the most to say and aren't affected, I just hope you don't suffer too much later on in life.

(Rant over)

That puts it well I think.

There is no doubt some people classed as disabled feel they can work and actually do work. This has led to some people thinking that everyone can work tho, some people it seems just arent capable of understanding this and think everything is simple as black and white.

Although its also worth pointing out that if eg. someone has 7 months to live, they are not automatically put in the WRAG, it just means they dont auto qualify for the support group, it is still possible for them to be assessed in the support group.

---------- Post added at 06:47 ---------- Previous post was at 06:42 ----------

Originally Posted by RizzyKing

You tell me not to take it personally Marty trouble is it is personal it's very personal and were the same sort of attacks being directed at you i assure you it would become very personal. Unlike many i cannot leave a troublesome employer and go work for someone else I tried I am stuck on benefit and now it seems me and everyone else is to be a political football. Fairness what fairness I have always said I wouldn't wish my illness on anyone but I now have a growing list. Just hope Marty that you never need the system but as a tradesman your in the higher group for needing things like incapacity benefit.

Rizzy no need to defend yourself, not all of us think that just because a very small minority abuse the system that there should be a sledgehammer used to force a big chunk of people into slave labour for the sake of dealing with a few. I understand because (a) I used to be on incapacity benefit not too long ago and (b) I still have a variety of health problems and know full well I could be back on it at some point in the future. I actually probably am entitled to DLA still but chose no tto claim it due to the amount of work involved and stigma attached to it, this is what society has done, actively discouraged people from claiming benefits they entitled to, this saves more money than the cost of fraud.

I am still waiting to hear what experience martyh has of the sick and disabled and the welfare system. Or if he just has a point of view. The way he is talking anyone would think he has a lot of experience.

I do remember been bullied by a job centre staff member, I immediatly cut her down and told her not to try that trick on me again. I wasnt ever called in for an interview again after that point. However people have to let themselves be bullied now or they get sanctioned on ESA.

[Osem]

Originally Posted by dilligaf1701

'There are far too many disabled people who choose to live on benefits as a lifestyle choice - the government is committed to helping them into work.'

Alistair Burt.

Yes? I'd probably agree if by 'disabled' he's referring to people who falsely claim disability benefits or exaggerate their conditions as opposed to those who are genuinely disabled. I know several people who've been signed off work on disability benefits for years who could dosome work. They have never been required to do so however and I don't suppose my experience is unique either. That doesn't mean that the majority of claimants who are genuinely disabled aren't fully deserving of benefits and are going to be forced to work when they patently can't.

It's a bit like the asylum argument. There are too many bogus claimants who abuse the system and in so doing a) take much needed resources out of the system and b) add to the considerable stigma genuine asylum seekers face. I don't see anything wrong with cracking down on bogus claimants of any description or requiring something in rerturn in the case of those who're able to do so.

How it's done is the key and until there's some real detail about how this issue is going to be tackled and these decisions made, I don't think we need to run away with the idea that cripples are going to be dragged sceaming to their local B&Q or have their benefits stopped.

What needs to happen is that issues of genuine concern to disabled people are brought coherently and effectively to the attention of the policy makers and one of the best ways to do this is via our MPs - personally and via the various charitable and other organisations. In my experience MPs rather like a quiet life and it's surprising just how much a few dozen letters and some well timed surgery visits or whatever can focus their attentions. Anyone with concerns about this issue would be far better off going down that route than worrying about something that isn't going to happen.

[dilligaf1701]

I did bring it to the attention of my mp and that was the response I got. I did not, however, say if I agreed with him or not.

[Osem]

Just to add, we are currently facing changes to the transition arrangements for SEN children leaving school in our borough. We know there are many changes and hurdles which lie ahead but we also know that reasoned and well directed argument can and does often win the day. It's that which we're going to be directing our efforts to.

---------- Post added at 08:34 ---------- Previous post was at 08:29 ----------

Originally Posted by dilligaf1701

I did bring it to the attention of my mp and that was the response I got. I did not, however, say if I agreed with him or not.

Good for you. That's a start but the truth is the more people who write to and, better still, go to see their MP's to explain their situations and concerns, the more likely it is that whatever change does happen is going to be acceptable. My advice is don't stop at one letter or one visit either. Keep the pressure up and encourage others to do likewise. Don't let your concerns about this issue be ignored, get the local press involved if possible. Sometimes you have to embarrass these people to act but one thing's for sure and that is if you simply give up and go away, your MP will have no reason to bother doing anything. If your MP isn't being helpful or even listening you need to 'encourage' him to review that stance by whatever peaceful and legal means you can.

[RizzyKing]

I think the problem is that over the years people with addictions alcohol and drug related have gone onto incapacity benefit and also obese people which pending how you view benefit is what is causing some of the outrage. I think we do need to personalise this issue it has become too easy to refer to general groups not taking the personal aspect of it into account. I also think some of the people with faith in the government and the whole process involved for disabled people right now need to look a bit more into that process and see just how bad it really is and how it is not fit for the purpose it is meant to achieve.

The public need to understand that the assessment process is by and large a complete sham and many that do not pursue appeals choose not to because it is easier to make a new claim then to try and keep an old one going through the appeals procedure not because they are frauds. Fraud despite the alarming headlines we see at times is not rampant in this country and yet that is the opinion many ordinary working people have and feel and it isn't their fault they have been systematically misled by people with an agenda.

Right now we have a government that in public talks care and concern but is contemplating some extremely unpleasant legislation and it's ok for people who are not affected by it now or feel they will not be affected by it in the future but for many of us we never knew we had a problem we never planned any of it we have ended up in the system through no fault of our own and anyone can have an accident or the onset of a desease at anytime. Support what is happening right now and when you need the system it will not be there.

One of the great things in this country was that if you needed it benefit was there it was paid in cash so you didn't lose anymore dignity then you had too we could go shopping and pay just the same as everyone else. We used to mock places like the US where people could only use certain stores and had to pay with food vouchers we we were better then that. Look how we have changed in just a few short years and look where we are going to end up if we don't start to stand up against this and put a stop to it.

Carry on with the "i'm alright jack" attitude and you will end up with a very different and nastier country not one any of us want to see but it really is upto the public in this country to start saying enough is enough.

[Osem]

All of what you've just written is exactly what you should be communicating to your MP and the various charitable groups and organisations representing the disabled in your area. If you've done that, great, but keep the heat on these people. These things take time of course and but one thing's for sure and that is if the disabled, their loved ones, carers and representatives don't keep lobbying the powers that be, it's far more likely that the changes which are eventually made aren't going to be as fair as they should be.

[peanut]

Originally Posted by Osem

All of what you've just written is exactly what you should be communicating to your MP and the various charitable groups and organisations representing the disabled in your area. If you've done that, great, but keep the heat on these people. These things take time of course and but one thing's for sure and that is if the disabled, their loved ones, carers and representatives don't keep lobbying the powers that be, it's far more likely that the changes which are eventually made aren't going to be as fair as they should be.

Whilst I can't argue with what you say at all, I feel it will be totally pointless. After all the campaigning from various disability groups it went to the Lords only for it all to be overturned without much consideration by this government who has an agenda against the sick and disabled. They are going ahead and do whatever they want regardless to how much noise anyone makes.

[Gary L]

Originally Posted by peanut

They are going ahead and do whatever they want regardless to how much noise anyone makes.

The only option then is not to try and get Dave to change his mind. but to get Dave out.

[Osem]

Originally Posted by peanut

Whilst I can't argue with what you say at all, I feel it will be totally pointless. After all the campaigning from various disability groups it went to the Lords only for it all to be overturned without much consideration by this government who has an agenda against the sick and disabled. They are going ahead and do whatever they want regardless to how much noise anyone makes.

I disagree. Not doing what I've suggested only contributes to making the outcome a self-fulfilling prophecy. 'They' can't do whatever 'they' want as they don't have a big enough majority and there are plenty of vulnerable MP's who want to keep their seats and can be influenced. It doesn't take many to vote against (or vote for changes/concessions) in order for the proposals to be modified to make them fairer and more workable.

Although I may disagree with some of their proposals I really don't think this government has an agenda against the sick and elderly but they are having to face up to some very stark and inescapable realities. Make no mistake, the next government will be in exactly the same situation - the days of 'uncontrolled' spending are gone forever.

---------- Post added at 09:46 ---------- Previous post was at 09:45 ----------

Originally Posted by Gary L

The only option then is not to try and get Dave to change his mind. but to get Dave out.

Yes of course. The panacea for all our ills. Vote Milliband's Marauders in and they'll see us all right.....