Disabled people face unlimited unpaid work or cuts in benefit

[martyh]

Originally Posted by RizzyKing

Marty be totally honest you really think this will not end up with disabled people being threatened and therefore getting exploited en masse soory but i have no faith left in politicians anymore or to just how low a depth they will plumb.

Yes i do have reservations Rizzy ,but not because some disabled people or mentaly ill people are being told they are capable of work .My main concern as i said earlier is the morality of the companies using these people .Whichever way it is sold by the government the companies will gain in productivity and if they aren't allowed to pay these people because they are on benefits then maybe some other way like forced donations to related charities is called for ofsetting any extra profit they may make as a result of having 'free labour' because i am certain that companies helping disabled people get back into work should not gain financially .

On a side note i actually don't see much point in the government rushing this type of legislation through because no matter how willing or prepared people are to work as a result of these schemes if the jobs aren't there they aren't going to be able to work

[RizzyKing]

Most disabled people on benefit despite the propaganda would be more then happy to work i know i would dearly love to be independent never again having to rely on benefit and the indignty that comes with it. I think this is a statistics fudge i am guessing that like training schemes once your in the program you won't show as being unemployed and if that is true then i have absolutely zero faith in this not becoming a mass cheap labour exercise as it will not only benefit companys but the government also.

It just seems lately that every wek a new way of hitting the sick and disabled is being considered by this despicable bunch of cretins we have in government and i think it is to see how far they can push this before the public kick up. Unless we want to become a much nastier country the public better start kicking up soon and demanding a backtrack otherwise this country is not going to be a pleasant place to live if your sick and disabled comparisons to another regime are becoming more and more real all the time.

[Angua]

Originally Posted by RizzyKing

Most disabled people on benefit despite the propaganda would be more then happy to work i know i would dearly love to be independent never again having to rely on benefit and the indignty that comes with it. I think this is a statistics fudge i am guessing that like training schemes once your in the program you won't show as being unemployed and if that is true then i have absolutely zero faith in this not becoming a mass cheap labour exercise as it will not only benefit companys but the government also.

It just seems lately that every wek a new way of hitting the sick and disabled is being considered by this despicable bunch of cretins we have in government and i think it is to see how far they can push this before the public kick up. Unless we want to become a much nastier country the public better start kicking up soon and demanding a backtrack otherwise this country is not going to be a pleasant place to live if your sick and disabled comparisons to another regime are becoming more and more real all the time.

One of our tenants volunteers at a local community centre in the kitchens one day a week with the help of his support worker. He also helps out a lot with the company, being a tenant representative on the Housing Board amongst other things. He could get some small remuneration for this but insists on doing this for free as it is his way of paying us back for saving his life. Every thing he does he looks on as another addition to his CV and from being in a fairly high supported house he is now in a low support house. Next step being a place of his own. However, he will always need a little support to make sure he is not getting back with the wrong sort as he could be very easily led.

What help he gives is useful and benefits many. The fact he is on benefits allows this. However, the chances of him getting a job that would pay enough to support himself are exceedingly remote through no fault of his own, even in an area with relatively low unemployment. It is this blind ignorance of the disparity between employers, what disability really means and who they will employ makes this government so appalling.

[Alan Fry]

When will this idiotic government leave the long-term sick and disabled people alsong and crack down on the rich insted!!!

Now will people Vote for parties other than the main ones?

---------- Post added at 15:10 ---------- Previous post was at 15:08 ----------

Can the Government focus on creating Decent Jobs than picking on the long-term sick and disabled?

[Maggy J]

I have never seen eye to eye with the Daily Mail so this is a first.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/debate/ar...y-stopped.html

[papa smurf]

Originally Posted by Maggy J

I have never seen eye to eye with the Daily Mail so this is a first.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/debate/ar...y-stopped.html

welcome to the dark side .

[rogerdraig]

some more leave the scheem

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-17086526

[Chrysalis]

Originally Posted by martyh

It think there's been a bit of an overreaction to the headline in this thread .Until the plans are finalised and actually put into practice nobody will know how it will work .There are ,for example people with cancer ,who do continue to work ,there is a young lady doing so at my wife's place of work ,there are plenty of disabled people working so to suggest that disabled people should not work is totally out of order .

Having said that there must be a large training program for DWP managers so they can correctly assess those who may struggle with the work placement ,which the DWP acknowledge will happen .Although there will be mandatory work placements the DWP manager will have discretion about which type of work will go to what type of disability and the practicalities of such placements for the people concerned .

For me the biggest issue is the morality of the companies taking part in the programs .At the moment there are safeguards in place to limit the number of placements for companies dependant on size,also companies/branches cannot take part in such schemes if they have made redundancies within 6 months but i fear that if the schemes are not managed correctly by the DWP they could be abused .Even the charity MIND say that such placements are a good idea for helping disabled people back into the workplace as long as it is done with compassion and common sense .

It also has to be said that these type of schemes could help some companies get over their predjudicies about hiring disabled people

The issue really is the compulsory nature of it and sanctions to those who refuse.

If it was a voluntary scheme for those who want to try to work then so be it then it would be a different story. This is instead the government supplying cheap disabled workers to established companies who shouldnt be using such staff.

I heard a very disturbing story of a friend of mine yesterday, not directly related to this issue but what she told me is shocking on what the DWP have done to her. The sort of things going on at the moment on the weak is sick.

---------- Post added at 04:33 ---------- Previous post was at 04:30 ----------

Originally Posted by Maggy J

I have never seen eye to eye with the Daily Mail so this is a first.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/debate/ar...y-stopped.html

Am I dreaming, this is the daily mail having a go at the policy?

[martyh]

Originally Posted by Chrysalis

The issue really is the compulsory nature of it and sanctions to those who refuse.

If it was a voluntary scheme for those who want to try to work then so be it then it would be a different story. This is instead the government supplying cheap disabled workers to established companies who shouldnt be using such staff.

A DWP presentation on the proposal reads: "This is a supportive measure and claimants will only be asked to do this where it is suitable in their personal circumstances."

It's not compulsory

"Our reforms look at what an individual can do and wants to do. For those claimants for whom work is not a realistic option, there will be unconditional support available."

I wouldn't take too much notice of the article in the OP ,it is full of conjecture with little actual fact .Like i said earlier there has been a massive over reaction by some posters to little actual fact

[Maggy J]

Originally Posted by martyh

It's not compulsory



I wouldn't take too much notice of the article in the OP ,it is full of conjecture with little actual fact .Like i said earlier there has been a massive over reaction by some posters to little actual fact

So we will keep banging on about it until this government either gets the idea it's wrong or until they do carry out the proposals and then we will be vindicated.Either way it's worth discussing it instead of just passively accepting this governments assurances that we are 'all in this together', because if we don't it will seem we accept such proposals without question.

[martyh]

Originally Posted by Maggy J

So we will keep banging on about it until this government either gets the idea it's wrong or until they do carry out the proposals and then we will be vindicated.Either way it's worth discussing it instead of just passively accepting this governments assurances that we are 'all in this together', because if we don't it will seem we accept such proposals without question.

The basic premise of doing something for benefits instead of sitting in the house all day is correct ,and that applies to some disabled people just as much as able bodied people .The biggest problem the government face is incorrect media coverage and the notion that benefits are "free money" with little or no obligation from the recipients.In my opinion some people are panicking because the free ride is coming to an end ,we as a nation are being told that we have to support ourselves a bit more instead of relying on others to do it for them

[Maggy J]

Originally Posted by martyh

The basic premise of doing something for benefits instead of sitting in the house all day is correct ,and that applies to some disabled people just as much as able bodied people .The biggest problem the government face is incorrect media coverage and the notion that benefits are "free money" with little or no obligation from the recipients.In my opinion some people are panicking because the free ride is coming to an end ,we as a nation are being told that we have to support ourselves a bit more instead of relying on others to do it for them

Actually I'm don't think ANYONE ELSE in this thread thinks that benefit scroungers should not be weeded out.However I draw the line at extending that to the genuinely in need and seriously ill and seriously mentally ill.

What you do about it is up to you but I intend to keep asking that those suffering from cancer and undergoing cancer treatment are not expected to work for benefits and that the severely learning disability people are not used as cheap labour and that those with severe mental illness are not put at further risk to their mental health by being placed in working conditions that make their illness worse.

[martyh]

Originally Posted by Maggy J

Actually I'm don't think ANYONE ELSE in this thread thinks that benefit scroungers should not be weeded out.However I draw the line at extending that to the genuinely in need and seriously ill and seriously mentally ill.

.

I have seen no evidence that the government are planning that

What you do about it is up to you but I intend to keep asking that those suffering from cancer and undergoing cancer treatment are not expected to work for benefits and that the severely learning disability people are not used as cheap labour and that those with severe mental illness are not put at further risk to their mental health by being placed in working conditions that make their illness worse.

i agree that safeguards must be put in place so that peoples conditions are not exacerbated by doing work programs ,but condemning the whole idea of disabled people doing suitable work programmes is wrong imo

[Taf]

Originally Posted by Maggy J

However I draw the line at extending that to the genuinely in need and seriously ill and seriously mentally ill.

I suppose it all comes down to WHO decides what is "serious" and what is not.

[Sirius]

Originally Posted by Taf

I suppose it all comes down to WHO decides what is "serious" and what is not.

Might i suggest that Cameron is classed as crazy.

The Tories are going over the top and are making me sick with what they are doing,

However that does not mean i could join the dark side and vote Labour, I will just not vote at all come the next election.

I hold Blair and Labour responsible for every young life lost in Iraq and afghanistan which means i can never trust them in power again and if the Tories do carry out this attack on cancer patients and the mentally ill they will be joining Labour in the NO VOTE list.

I think i will just spoil my ballot paper in disgust at the whole crap of it all.