US marines accused of war crimes in Afghanistan.

[Mr Angry]

So goes the headline over at the Guardian.

WARNING: GRAPHIC VIDEO CONTENT VIA GUARDIAN SITE LINK.

"In the graphic short video, four soldiers in combat gear and carrying weapons are seen acting in unison as they urinate on three bloodied corpses. One of the soldiers sighs with relief, another says "yeah" and a third laughs. One remarks: "Have a great day, buddy". Another says: "Golden, like a shower".

Not such a good PR move there.

"The promise of an investigation is unlikely to quiet concern at yet another revelation of abuses by American forces. Last year, 11 soldiers were convicted over the murders of three Afghan civilians by a "kill squad" and the subsequent cover up. It was revealed that some of them collected body parts, including fingers and skull parts, as trophies, and posed for photographs over the corpses of their victims."

[RizzyKing]

Whilst i don't agree with what they are alledged to have done this sort of thing happens in a combat zone always has and always will deplorable as it is after a firefight different people express their miriade of feelings differently. These days though with the amount of cameras that are all over the place even in a warzone military structures need to adjust and address this issue rather then respond with a pr knee jerk reaction towards individual troops.

[Sirius]

Originally Posted by RizzyKing

Whilst i don't agree with what they are alledged to have done this sort of thing happens in a combat zone always has and always will deplorable as it is after a firefight different people express their miriade of feelings differently. These days though with the amount of cameras that are all over the place even in a warzone military structures need to adjust and address this issue rather then respond with a pr knee jerk reaction towards individual troops.

Well said sir

Yes its wrong, Yes they need to be punished.

But i bet you now every hand wringing git who would NEVER wear a uniform or defend there country will open there mouths and start a **** storm. I say again they should be punished but watch the 100's of so called offended people be offended for others. I predict traffic jams around radio and tv stations today as every offended hand wringer the press can find will be wheeled out to be offended for YOU.

The military need to move fast, punish those that did this if proved in a military court to be true and then move on.

[Mr Angry]

Originally Posted by Sirius

The military need to move fast, punish those that did this....and then move on.

Agreed.

They also need to re-educate their troops as to the rules of combat and the treatment of enemy combatants (whether dead or alive).

[Kymmy]

Agreed as well..

[TheDaddy]

I hope they throw the book at them if true, actions like this act as a recruiting sargent and will put them and their comrades in yet further danger in the future.

[Pierre]

Originally Posted by Mr Angry

Agreed.

They also need to re-educate their troops as to the rules of combat and the treatment of enemy combatants (whether dead or alive).

This is not a war being fought under the rules of the geneva convention.

There's no "great escape" mutual respect between soldiers/officers of opposing sides here.

The Taliban aren't soldiers, in fact the taliban aren't even the Taliban unless they're actually caught with a gun or bomb in their hands.

The American soldiers don't respect their opponents, and this is the result.

[TheDaddy]

Originally Posted by Pierre

This is not a war being fought under the rules of the geneva convention.

There's no "great escape" mutual respect between soldiers/officers of opposing sides here.

The Taliban aren't soldiers, in fact the taliban aren't even the Taliban unless they're actually caught with a gun or bomb in their hands.

The American soldiers don't respect their opponents, and this is the result.

Perhaps I'm wrong but I just can't imagine British soldiers doing that, perhaps it comes down to discipline?

[Mr Angry]

Originally Posted by Pierre

This is not a war being fought under the rules of the geneva convention.

There's no "great escape" mutual respect between soldiers/officers of opposing sides here.

The Taliban aren't soldiers, in fact the taliban aren't even the Taliban unless they're actually caught with a gun or bomb in their hands.

The American soldiers don't respect their opponents, and this is the result.

That might well be your opinion.

I should point out that I made specific reference to "combatants" - not simply soldiers.

The fact is that civilized people abhor such behaviours - whatever the context.

There is no plausible excuse for anyone, in any threatre, to urinate on dead bodies be they combatants (lawful or otherwise), civilians or soldiers. Even less so if they are there to purportedly advocate and encourage democracy.

[Pierre]

Originally Posted by Mr Angry

That might well be your opinion.

it is.

I should point out that I made specific reference to "combatants" - not simply soldiers.

Hey, they both have guns, just because one wears a uniform and the other an ideolgy makes no difference

The fact is that civilized people abhor such behaviours - whatever the context.

Since when has WAR ever been civilised

There is no plausible excuse for anyone, in any threatre, to urinate on dead bodies be they combatants (lawful or otherwise), civilians or soldiers. Even less so if they are there to purportedly advocate and encourage democracy.

Soldiers are not there to encourage democracy thats a politicians job.

I'm not going to defend their actions, but neither am I going to denigrate them either.

Why? because I haven't earnt the right.

Maybe if I'd seen my friends insides paint the desert floor red on a few occasions I might sometimes let my more base instincts get the better of me.

But as I type away in my cosy little world I can imagine how I would feel very silly if I met these men face to face and tried quote your last paragraph to them.

[danielf]

Originally Posted by Sirius

Well said sir

Yes its wrong, Yes they need to be punished.


The military need to move fast, punish those that did this if proved in a military court to be true and then move on.

And the USA administration would do well to send out a message that this behaviour is not tolerated. Signing up to the Rome statute of the ICC, thereby allowing American troops to be prosecuted by the ICC would be a good start.

[Mr Angry]

Originally Posted by Pierre

it is.

And you're entitled to it.

Originally Posted by Pierre

Hey, they both have guns, just because one wears a uniform and the other an ideolgy makes no difference

That's right. It does not, however, give one the right to desecrate the other in death.

Originally Posted by Pierre

Since when has WAR ever been civilised

Nobody, and certainly not me, has said war has ever been civilized. I said "civilized people". The behaviours of the participants in war is a different matter.

Originally Posted by Pierre

Soldiers are not there to encourage democracy thats a politicians job.

Hearts and minds are not won by politicians. It's the folk in country who do that. Their job isn't all (to quote someone) "Great Escape" esque. They sell the democracy on the ground.

Originally Posted by Pierre

I'm not going to defend their actions,

Good man.

Originally Posted by Pierre

...but neither am I going to denigrate them either. Why? because I haven't earnt the right.

They are there to supposedly defend you, supposedly acting in your interests, put there by a Government elected by people just like you. You have every right to denigrate them should you wish to do so if their behaviours are being carried out purportedly in your name and you are unhappy with the fact.

It's called democracy. Don't be afraid of it.

Originally Posted by Pierre

Maybe if I'd seen my friends insides paint the desert floor red on a few occasions I might sometimes let my more base instincts get the better of me.

Quite possibly. Be grateful you haven't had to.

Originally Posted by Pierre

But as I type away in my cosy little world I can imagine how I would feel very silly if I met these men face to face and tried quote your last paragraph to them.

As you and I type away in our cozy little world their own commanders seem to have no problem conveying the very same message which I did in my closing paragraph. There's really no need for you to feel very silly.

To quote Marine Corps headquarters at the Pentagon:

"The actions portrayed are not consistent with our core values and are not indicative of the character of the Marines in our Corps. This matter will be fully investigated.''

No blood and guts excuses there then.

[Taf]

This has hit Western headlines (not so in Afghanistan) just as a mate's son is en route there for his first tour with the US military.

Poking a bees nest is not what you want when your only son is about to get in the firing line.

[Kymmy]

War or not our soldiers belong to what we classify as a civilised society with rules that we are all expected to adhere to and as such should behave that way whilst they are employed by the British gavernment. The soldiers (although American) on the video have broken the law whether it be their own countries law, the host countries law or even military law and as such should be held accountable.

[RizzyKing]

It's so easy to be a civvy and complain about how soldiers in a warzone behave when you arn't there havn't had to deal with things. It is wonderfully black and white for us here isn't it shame it isn't for all of them out there. Does anyone seriously believe the taliban show respect for the dead bodies of our troops . Fact is in the heat of things you sometimes do things you would never normally agree with or ever think of doing combat has a very strange affect on some of the best people at times unless you've been there it is hard to understand and harder to explain.