Foreigners do get Brits' jobs says report.

[heero_yuy]

THOUSANDS of Brits have been pushed out of work by the huge influx of foreign workers, an official report will confirm today.

Many more have seen their pay squeezed by mass immigration, the independent Migration Advisory Committee will say.

The findings are the first definitive verdict on the effect of the influx — which recently hit 250,000 people a year — on the jobs market.

Story

It's what we suspected for many years that the open door policy on immigration was never really "good" for British workers wages or those looking for jobs. Only employers wanting cheap labour.

Can't find a link to the actual report as yet and the BBC's silence is deafening.

Update:

This seems to be it

[Russ]

I wonder how many of those jobs taken by foreigners were overlooked by Brits who thought the wages on offer were too low for them to afford a new 42 inch tv AND an iPhone?

[chris9991]

BBC link

http://www.bbc.co.uk/newsbeat/16469757

Sir Andrew Green, the director of Migration Watch, says there's almost certainly a link: "We can't prove that statistically, but nor can you disprove it statistically.

I should say I think it is the same story. BBC talk about Migration Watch but The Sun mentions the Migration Advisory Committee. Though they are different bodies considering the BBC published this story yesterday I think they are referring to the same issue

[Russ]

Sir Andrew Green, the director of Migration Watch, says there's almost certainly a link: "We can't prove that statistically, but nor can you disprove it statistically.

Straw man...

[Osem]

Originally Posted by Russ

I wonder how many of those jobs taken by foreigners were overlooked by Brits who thought the wages on offer were too low for them to afford a new 42 inch tv AND an iPhone?

Or pay their mortgage/rent even?

Single migrants who come for a couple of years to rough it, work hard, save up and go home with enough money to subsidise their lives or buy property back home can afford to do just that. We know plenty of people who've done just that.

My brother's company employs a lot of Polish workers many of whom have decided to stay in the UK long term. It's ironic how their views have changed since doing so and starting families, taking out mortgages etc. Their view of migrant labour is changing because they now know they can't compete with those migrants who can work for less because they're not in it for the long term and have no other commitments in the the UK to worry about.

[Gary L]

Originally Posted by Russ

I wonder how many of those jobs taken by foreigners were overlooked by Brits who thought the wages on offer were too low for them to afford a new 42 inch tv AND an iPhone?

You can be so anti British sometimes Russ

[Russ]

Originally Posted by Osem

Or pay their mortgage/rent even?

Single migrants who come for a couple of years to rough it, work hard, save up and go home with enough money to subsidise their lives or buy property back home can afford to do just that. We know plenty of people who've done just that.

My brother's company employs a lot of Polish workers many of whom have decided to stay in the UK long term. It's ironic how their views have changed since doing so and starting familieis, taking out mortgages etc. Suddenly their view of migrant labour is changing because they now know they can't compete with those migrants who can work for less because they're not in it for the long term and have no other commitments in the the UK to worry about.

I'm not saying my scenario is the only way - over Christmas I worked at Amazon in Swansea, it was typical manual low-end work. Just over minimum wage, half hour for lunch, disciplinary points if you called in sick or went home/got sent home early due to sickness etc

There were a LOT of Eastern Europeans there and whereas they were not the majority, they had the highest percentage of workers who met or exceeded their target.

It was very physically demanding work, and some locals were put off by how far they had to walk each day for a wage which was just over the national minimum. But I never saw any of the Eastern Europeans moan about their job, none were ever late for pre-shift briefings etc. I'm not saying they're better than us but from what I saw, too many Brits decided they weren't going to do the jobs, as opposed to not being able to get them.

[Osem]

Originally Posted by Russ

I'm not saying my scenario is the only way - over Christmas I worked at Amazon in Swansea, it was typical manual low-end work. Just over minimum wage, half hour for lunch, disciplinary points if you called in sick or went home/got sent home early due to sickness etc

There were a LOT of Eastern Europeans there and whereas they were not the majority, they had the highest percentage of workers who met or exceeded their target.

It was very physically demanding work, and some locals were put off by how far they had to walk each day for a wage which was just over the national minimum. But I never saw any of the Eastern Europeans moan about their job, none were ever late for pre-shift briefings etc. I'm not saying they're better than us but from what I saw, too many Brits decided they weren't going to do the jobs, as opposed to not being able to get them.

That's true, but then many of these people are still relatively new to the UK workforce and feel they have to go the extra mile or they'll be 'first out'. Over time, as they really start to feel part of the community you find they tend to behave more like the their indigenous colleagues because that fear and the motivation it creates is reduced. My brother's firm has found exactly that and whilst the new staff are very keen etc. those they originally employed and have retained have lost some of that ethic because they feel more secure. It's just human nature really.

[Russ]

Originally Posted by Osem

That's true, but then many of these people are still relatively new to the UK workforce and feel they have to go the extra mile or they'll be 'first out'. Over time, as they really start to feel part of the community you find they tend to behave more like the their indigenous colleagues because that fear and the motivation it creates is reduced. My brother's firm has found exactly that and whilst the new staff are very keen etc. those they originally employed and have retained have lost some of that ethic because they feel more secure. It's just human nature really.

Ah yeah I get that, I really do. However whereas I have little respect for Labour's almost "open-door" policy for migrant workers, blaming Blair and co for the status quo is a bit pointless. Employers need to cut costs especially in the last 4 years. If a group of people come along who are willing to work for the lowest possible wage, is that really the government's fault?

There are Brits out there who feel certain jobs are beneath them, financially and socially. Whether or not they literally cannot afford to take them is another matter but I've seen many instances where people have declined or avoided jobs purely because it will give them a lower standard of living or don't want to be 'flipping burgers'. Scaling back financially is never going to be pleasant but these are tough times and they can expect no sympathy when people who are willing to adapt to a lower lifestyle take the work.

By the way I'm not describing those who would be facing smaller meals etc. But is another laptop or Xbox really necessary?

---------- Post added at 11:47 ---------- Previous post was at 11:44 ----------

edit: it's tosh apparently http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-16484918

[chris9991]

Government says there is a link (apparently)

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-16484918

The government's official advisers on migration say there is a link between immigration from outside the European Union and job losses among UK workers

[Russ]

Who to believe...

[nomadking]

Can anyone honestly disagree with this comment:-

It would be "a very remarkable coincidence if there was no link at all" between the figures, it said.

[chris9991]

Correlation does not mean causation

[TheDaddy]

Originally Posted by Russ

I'm not saying my scenario is the only way - over Christmas I worked at Amazon in Swansea, it was typical manual low-end work. Just over minimum wage, half hour for lunch, disciplinary points if you called in sick or went home/got sent home early due to sickness etc

There were a LOT of Eastern Europeans there and whereas they were not the majority, they had the highest percentage of workers who met or exceeded their target.

It was very physically demanding work, and some locals were put off by how far they had to walk each day for a wage which was just over the national minimum. But I never saw any of the Eastern Europeans moan about their job, none were ever late for pre-shift briefings etc. I'm not saying they're better than us but from what I saw, too many Brits decided they weren't going to do the jobs, as opposed to not being able to get them.

When the minimum wage was brought in there were no minimum wage jobs in warehousing, the sector as a whole paid a living wage from what I remember, the influx of migrants enabled bosses and agencies in particular to pay less.

[Ignitionnet]

Originally Posted by Russ

I'm not saying my scenario is the only way - over Christmas I worked at Amazon in Swansea, it was typical manual low-end work. Just over minimum wage, half hour for lunch, disciplinary points if you called in sick or went home/got sent home early due to sickness etc

There were a LOT of Eastern Europeans there and whereas they were not the majority, they had the highest percentage of workers who met or exceeded their target.

It was very physically demanding work, and some locals were put off by how far they had to walk each day for a wage which was just over the national minimum. But I never saw any of the Eastern Europeans moan about their job, none were ever late for pre-shift briefings etc. I'm not saying they're better than us but from what I saw, too many Brits decided they weren't going to do the jobs, as opposed to not being able to get them.

Oddly for doing similar physically demanding work I was paid over £20k. 12 years ago.

Prior to that I was working in a warehouse for £16k.

This was not in London nor even the South East, but the Midlands.

That you were receiving just over the minimum wage for 'very physically demanding work' just goes to show how much employers can take the **** with the wages knowing they've a supply of 'Eastern Europeans' who pack themselves into heavily over-occupied housing who're happy to work for the pittance they're inclined to pay.

Meanwhile for those who are working the tax payer picks up the cost of overpriced housing and people supporting their families through what is basically the corporate welfare of working and family tax credits and housing benefit for those in work whose wages aren't enough to pay for that most basic of needs.