Home News Forum Articles
  Welcome back Join CF
You are here You are here: Home | Forum | New high speed rail link ...is it worth it ?


You are currently viewing our boards as a guest which gives you limited access to view most of the discussions, articles and other free features. By joining our Virgin Media community you will have full access to all discussions, be able to view and post threads, communicate privately with other members (PM), respond to polls, upload your own images/photos, and access many other special features. Registration is fast, simple and absolutely free so please join our community today.


Welcome to Cable Forum
Go Back   Cable Forum > Cable Forum Basement > Current Affairs

New high speed rail link ...is it worth it ?
Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old 06-04-2012, 23:16   #196
martyh
cf.mega poster
 
martyh's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: newcastle upon tyne
Age: 50
Services: crappy sky+ tv crappy BT internet and phone still got my VM mobile
Posts: 14,497
martyh has a pair of shiny starsmartyh has a pair of shiny starsmartyh has a pair of shiny stars
martyh has a pair of shiny starsmartyh has a pair of shiny starsmartyh has a pair of shiny starsmartyh has a pair of shiny starsmartyh has a pair of shiny starsmartyh has a pair of shiny starsmartyh has a pair of shiny starsmartyh has a pair of shiny starsmartyh has a pair of shiny starsmartyh has a pair of shiny starsmartyh has a pair of shiny starsmartyh has a pair of shiny starsmartyh has a pair of shiny starsmartyh has a pair of shiny starsmartyh has a pair of shiny starsmartyh has a pair of shiny starsmartyh has a pair of shiny stars
Re: New high speed rail link ...is it worth it ?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Arthurgray50@blu View Post
If l am not wrong (and l am sure members will tell me), Under a certain law, a graveyard cannot be touched by any means, unless 100 years has passed since the LAST body was buried.

This is what happened to a cemetery where my father is buried, and it caused uproar, when they started building on it. And my father was deceased 40 years ago. There was a long legal battle over it.

I believe that there is a legal bounded law on this, and cannot be changed
All depends arthur ,in london the time limit is 75yrs ,there where changes to the laws a few years ago where responsibility was transfered from the home office to the department of constitutional affairs .
http://www.york.ac.uk/chp/crg/crgcontext.htm
__________________
"Give a man a fire and he's warm for the day, but set fire to him and he's warm for the rest of his life."

Terry Pratchett, Jingo
martyh is offline   Reply With Quote
Advertisement
Old 06-04-2012, 23:52   #197
Arthurgray50@blu
cf.mega poster
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Posts: 5,477
Arthurgray50@blu has disabled reputation
Re: New high speed rail link ...is it worth it ?

Martyh, that is a very good point, I honestly think that it will be very hard to change the law on this, As this law has been like it for years, and l think it will go to the supreme court of England to change it, and there will be long legal battles to alter it. And by then the High speed link will be there.

I can never understand why they want to build another line, there is miles of lines that are unused, and some lines that just need adjusting.
Arthurgray50@blu is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-04-2012, 08:05   #198
beeman
Kiss My Stinger
 
beeman's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: cambridgeshire
Age: 33
Services: Virgin VIP package, FREEVIEW
Posts: 431
beeman is a glorious beacon of lightbeeman is a glorious beacon of lightbeeman is a glorious beacon of lightbeeman is a glorious beacon of lightbeeman is a glorious beacon of lightbeeman is a glorious beacon of lightbeeman is a glorious beacon of light
Re: New high speed rail link ...is it worth it ?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Arthurgray50@blu View Post
Martyh, that is a very good point, I honestly think that it will be very hard to change the law on this, As this law has been like it for years, and l think it will go to the supreme court of England to change it, and there will be long legal battles to alter it. And by then the High speed link will be there.

I can never understand why they want to build another line, there is miles of lines that are unused, and some lines that just need adjusting.
there woulnt need to bee a change of law, All that would bee needed is a licence from the department of constitutional affairs

(from martyh's link)
Quote:
Once interred, human remains cannot be disturbed without a special licence. For well over a century, application had to be made to the Home Office. In 2006, responsibility was transferred – along with other burial legislative matters – to the Department for Constitutional Affairs. There has, however, been no change to the requirement to apply for a licence in cases where remains are disturbed, even if that disturbance is accidental. Licenses have never been made available for the purpose of reusing a site for burial, although there are many instances of licenses being issued for the removal of bodies from churchyards to facilitate building, road-widening and other developments.
As you can see there is even precedence for the removal of remains for permanent infrastructure projects (road widening and other developments). SO this will cause no issues for HS2
beeman is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 17-04-2012, 11:26   #199
Alan Fry
Permanently Banned
 
Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: Radio Cairo, Hampstead, London
Services: 100 MB Broadband, XL Tv, Sky Sports and Movies HD, all other prenium channels, 3 TIVO, 2 V HD
Posts: 2,937
Alan Fry has upset the applecartAlan Fry has upset the applecartAlan Fry has upset the applecartAlan Fry has upset the applecartAlan Fry has upset the applecartAlan Fry has upset the applecartAlan Fry has upset the applecartAlan Fry has upset the applecartAlan Fry has upset the applecartAlan Fry has upset the applecartAlan Fry has upset the applecartAlan Fry has upset the applecartAlan Fry has upset the applecartAlan Fry has upset the applecartAlan Fry has upset the applecartAlan Fry has upset the applecartAlan Fry has upset the applecartAlan Fry has upset the applecartAlan Fry has upset the applecart
Re: New high speed rail link ...is it worth it ?

Thery could change the route to avoid the gravesites.

Anyway this reminds me of the first 2 episodes of Boss, the Mayor had to deal with a gravesite with Native American remains, which was near the Airport (the gravesite was in an area need to expand the airport)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boss_(TV_series)
Alan Fry is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 28-01-2013, 19:31   #200
joglynne
Posting with Cattitude.
 
joglynne's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Manchester.
Services: Kahuna.
Posts: 11,206
joglynne has a lot of silver blingjoglynne has a lot of silver blingjoglynne has a lot of silver blingjoglynne has a lot of silver blingjoglynne has a lot of silver blingjoglynne has a lot of silver blingjoglynne has a lot of silver blingjoglynne has a lot of silver bling
joglynne has a lot of silver blingjoglynne has a lot of silver blingjoglynne has a lot of silver blingjoglynne has a lot of silver blingjoglynne has a lot of silver blingjoglynne has a lot of silver blingjoglynne has a lot of silver blingjoglynne has a lot of silver blingjoglynne has a lot of silver blingjoglynne has a lot of silver blingjoglynne has a lot of silver blingjoglynne has a lot of silver blingjoglynne has a lot of silver blingjoglynne has a lot of silver bling
Re: New high speed rail link ...is it worth it ?

I am bumping this thread as phase two of HS2, extending the route north of Birmingham to Manchester and Leeds has been announced to-day.

Policy paper.

https://www.gov.uk/government/public...ter-and-beyond


Here is a link to maps which cover the governments initial preferences for the routes the new link will take.

https://www.gov.uk/hs2-phase-two-ini...-to-manchester

... and an idea of how much time we will all save traveling in the future.

http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news...ourney-1559969
__________________
"I purr, therefore I am." ~ Anonypuss
joglynne is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 28-01-2013, 19:34   #201
Sirius
Going to retire in Malta
 
Sirius's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Posts: 15,255
Sirius has a lot of silver blingSirius has a lot of silver blingSirius has a lot of silver blingSirius has a lot of silver blingSirius has a lot of silver blingSirius has a lot of silver bling
Sirius has a lot of silver blingSirius has a lot of silver blingSirius has a lot of silver blingSirius has a lot of silver blingSirius has a lot of silver blingSirius has a lot of silver bling
Re: New high speed rail link ...is it worth it ?

Quote:
Originally Posted by joglynne View Post
I am bumping this thread as phase two of HS2, extending the route north of Birmingham to Manchester and Leeds has been announced to-day.

Policy paper.

https://www.gov.uk/government/public...ter-and-beyond


Here is a link to maps which cover the governments initial preferences for the routes the new link will take.

https://www.gov.uk/hs2-phase-two-ini...-to-manchester

... and an idea of how much time we will all save traveling in the future.

http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news...ourney-1559969
Personaly i would have liked the money spent on widening the motorways where needed. I never use the train because it costs so bloody much.
__________________
.
I live in a green and unpleasant land ruined by people who have sold us out to the EU
.
Sirius is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 28-01-2013, 20:02   #202
joglynne
Posting with Cattitude.
 
joglynne's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Manchester.
Services: Kahuna.
Posts: 11,206
joglynne has a lot of silver blingjoglynne has a lot of silver blingjoglynne has a lot of silver blingjoglynne has a lot of silver blingjoglynne has a lot of silver blingjoglynne has a lot of silver blingjoglynne has a lot of silver blingjoglynne has a lot of silver bling
joglynne has a lot of silver blingjoglynne has a lot of silver blingjoglynne has a lot of silver blingjoglynne has a lot of silver blingjoglynne has a lot of silver blingjoglynne has a lot of silver blingjoglynne has a lot of silver blingjoglynne has a lot of silver blingjoglynne has a lot of silver blingjoglynne has a lot of silver blingjoglynne has a lot of silver blingjoglynne has a lot of silver blingjoglynne has a lot of silver blingjoglynne has a lot of silver bling
Re: New high speed rail link ...is it worth it ?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sirius View Post
Personaly i would have liked the money spent on widening the motorways where needed. I never use the train because it costs so bloody much.
Same here Sirius. I certainly don't fancy the knock on effects of building a 7.5 mile (12km) tunnel under Manchester will cause but will probably be pushing up daisies by the time the first train uses the line in 2033.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england...ester-21230543
__________________
"I purr, therefore I am." ~ Anonypuss
joglynne is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 28-01-2013, 20:03   #203
Sirius
Going to retire in Malta
 
Sirius's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Posts: 15,255
Sirius has a lot of silver blingSirius has a lot of silver blingSirius has a lot of silver blingSirius has a lot of silver blingSirius has a lot of silver blingSirius has a lot of silver bling
Sirius has a lot of silver blingSirius has a lot of silver blingSirius has a lot of silver blingSirius has a lot of silver blingSirius has a lot of silver blingSirius has a lot of silver bling
Re: New high speed rail link ...is it worth it ?

Quote:
Originally Posted by joglynne View Post
Same here Sirius. I certainly don't fancy the knock on effects of building a 7.5 mile (12km) tunnel under Manchester will cause but will probably be pushing up daisies by the time the first train uses the line in 2033.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england...ester-21230543
And me
__________________
.
I live in a green and unpleasant land ruined by people who have sold us out to the EU
.
Sirius is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 28-01-2013, 20:04   #204
Arthurgray50@blu
cf.mega poster
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Posts: 5,477
Arthurgray50@blu has disabled reputation
Re: New high speed rail link ...is it worth it ?

A major problem coming from this news, who will win the contracts to build the trains, stations etc.

Gurranteed it wont be British companies, the one thing that is bad is that the government say it will create 100.000 jobs - who for.

We know what the policies are for this coalition, we will give it to oversea's then we can get more exports/imports, same old story - give the contracts to the British workforce.
Arthurgray50@blu is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 28-01-2013, 21:18   #205
Chris
Trollsplatter
Cable Forum Team
 
Chris's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: North of Watford
Services: Humane elimination of all common Internet pests
Posts: 28,810
Chris has a golden auraChris has a golden aura
Chris has a golden auraChris has a golden auraChris has a golden auraChris has a golden auraChris has a golden auraChris has a golden auraChris has a golden aura
Send a message via Skype™ to Chris
Re: New high speed rail link ...is it worth it ?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Arthurgray50@blu View Post
A major problem coming from this news, who will win the contracts to build the trains, stations etc.

Gurranteed it wont be British companies, the one thing that is bad is that the government say it will create 100.000 jobs - who for.

We know what the policies are for this coalition, we will give it to oversea's then we can get more exports/imports, same old story - give the contracts to the British workforce.
Well, unfortunately for you Arthur, Labour also wants to see this railway built, so you can't blame it on the Coalition. Lord Adonis, the Labour transport secretary in 2010, had already commissioned a lot of the exploratory work.

HS2 is *going* to get built. The last lingering doubt was a rumour that George Osborne had gone cool on the idea, but seeing as he has come out and given it his full backing today, the one and only possibility of this being shelved has now gone.

For me, one of the best things about today's announcement is that it will prevent short-sighted whingers from constantly moaning about all this effort just to cut Birmingham-London journey times by 10 minutes. This isn't about Birmingham and never was. HS2 will eventually be a national high-speed rail backbone connecting central Scotland with London and then on to the continent via HS1 and the Chunnel. Now the route has been published as far as the north of England, perhaps the debate can get off the silly soundbites and onto the detail of how best to do this with minimal environmental impact and maximum economic benefit.
Chris is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 28-01-2013, 21:30   #206
Arthurgray50@blu
cf.mega poster
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Posts: 5,477
Arthurgray50@blu has disabled reputation
Re: New high speed rail link ...is it worth it ?

Yes, but Chris, the coalition could have stopped it to save money, they could have put the money into building better motorways and given the freight industry a big life.

There is no guarantee that this will benefit the British economy, what will probably happen is that this will go before the High Court with injunctions coming out of the ear hole, and l suppose the good thing is that the Coalition won't be in power when it starts will they.
Arthurgray50@blu is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 28-01-2013, 21:53   #207
Pierre
Nil Status Nisi Optimum
 
Pierre's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: floating in the ether
Posts: 5,534
Pierre has a nice shiny starPierre has a nice shiny starPierre has a nice shiny starPierre has a nice shiny star
Pierre has a nice shiny starPierre has a nice shiny starPierre has a nice shiny starPierre has a nice shiny starPierre has a nice shiny starPierre has a nice shiny starPierre has a nice shiny star
Re: New high speed rail link ...is it worth it ?

We should just get on an build it.

It's become embarrassing in this country, we can't get sod all done.

Last year China built 3000km of high speed rail, to add to the 6300km they already had

http://eandt.theiet.org/news/2013/jan/china-rail.cfm

And we're arguing about a few hundred miles and it'll take over a decade before work starts.

You can see quite clearly what a 'can do' attitude can do for your economy.

Cut the red tape, give the environmentalists the finger, and get these projects going.
__________________
The wheel's still turning but the hamsters dead.
Pierre is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 29-01-2013, 08:46   #208
Osem
Ignore trolls & idiots
Shark Attack Champion, Pacman Champion, Air Attack 3 Champion
 
Osem's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Right here!
Posts: 14,806
Osem has a pair of shiny starsOsem has a pair of shiny starsOsem has a pair of shiny starsOsem has a pair of shiny starsOsem has a pair of shiny starsOsem has a pair of shiny stars
Osem has a pair of shiny starsOsem has a pair of shiny starsOsem has a pair of shiny starsOsem has a pair of shiny starsOsem has a pair of shiny starsOsem has a pair of shiny starsOsem has a pair of shiny starsOsem has a pair of shiny starsOsem has a pair of shiny starsOsem has a pair of shiny starsOsem has a pair of shiny starsOsem has a pair of shiny stars
Re: New high speed rail link ...is it worth it ?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Pierre View Post
We should just get on an build it.

It's become embarrassing in this country, we can't get sod all done.


Last year China built 3000km of high speed rail, to add to the 6300km they already had

http://eandt.theiet.org/news/2013/jan/china-rail.cfm

And we're arguing about a few hundred miles and it'll take over a decade before work starts.

You can see quite clearly what a 'can do' attitude can do for your economy.

Cut the red tape, give the environmentalists the finger, and get these projects going.
Well we got the Olympics 'done' quite nicely to be fair.

As prestigious an engineering feat as it would be, I can't see how HS2 can really work to drive the economy except during its construction phase. It's going to be massively expensive to build and unless it's heavily subsidised it'll be underused. I've yet to see a convincing commercial argument about how cutting journey times by train by, IIRC, a hour between London and Manchester is going to generate a significant amount of new jobs and wealth.

Right now I think the money would be far better spent on building things we really need like housing and improving the infrastructure we already have, including roads and railways. We could also try generating some jobs and avoiding the huge costs of disruption and destruction due to severe weather by improving basic things like our flood defences.
__________________
Same Old Labour - the party of lies, spin, PFI, uncontrolled immigration, financial chaos, illegal wars & social engineering.
Osem is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 29-01-2013, 09:28   #209
Chris
Trollsplatter
Cable Forum Team
 
Chris's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: North of Watford
Services: Humane elimination of all common Internet pests
Posts: 28,810
Chris has a golden auraChris has a golden aura
Chris has a golden auraChris has a golden auraChris has a golden auraChris has a golden auraChris has a golden auraChris has a golden auraChris has a golden aura
Send a message via Skype™ to Chris
Re: New high speed rail link ...is it worth it ?

If you don't see how halving the time it takes to get from London to Manchesteer is going to benefit the economy, how are you expecting any benefits to accrue from the mere shaving of journey times you get from widening or straightening stretches of road or existing rail?

Radical improvement is only going to come from doing something radically different. Back in the early 19th century, the canal companies did all in their power to prevent the newfangled railways from being built. If they had, we might still all be employed as farmhands and market stall keepers, watching small quantities of Wedgwood china occasionally floating past our cottage windows. Thankfully they failed and as a result, Britain led the industrial revolution for another century.

History has shown time and time again that allowing something to be done faster and more efficiently results in economic benefit. From canals to rail to paved road, the internal combustion engine and the computer, all of it has resulted in growth. HS2 will be the same. Although sadly the British capacity for moaning about it will also be the same. However, I'm confident our grandchildren will find the idea of there not being a high speed rail network as odd as we would find the idea of there being no motorways.
Chris is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 29-01-2013, 09:38   #210
Osem
Ignore trolls & idiots
Shark Attack Champion, Pacman Champion, Air Attack 3 Champion
 
Osem's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Right here!
Posts: 14,806
Osem has a pair of shiny starsOsem has a pair of shiny starsOsem has a pair of shiny starsOsem has a pair of shiny starsOsem has a pair of shiny starsOsem has a pair of shiny stars
Osem has a pair of shiny starsOsem has a pair of shiny starsOsem has a pair of shiny starsOsem has a pair of shiny starsOsem has a pair of shiny starsOsem has a pair of shiny starsOsem has a pair of shiny starsOsem has a pair of shiny starsOsem has a pair of shiny starsOsem has a pair of shiny starsOsem has a pair of shiny starsOsem has a pair of shiny stars
Re: New high speed rail link ...is it worth it ?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris View Post
If you don't see how halving the time it takes to get from London to Manchesteer is going to benefit the economy, how are you expecting any benefits to accrue from the mere shaving of journey times you get from widening or straightening stretches of road or existing rail?

Radical improvement is only going to come from doing something radically different. Back in the early 19th century, the canal companies did all in their power to prevent the newfangled railways from being built. If they had, we might still all be employed as farmhands and market stall keepers, watching small quantities of Wedgwood china occasionally floating past our cottage windows. Thankfully they failed and as a result, Britain led the industrial revolution for another century.

History has shown time and time again that allowing something to be done faster and more efficiently results in economic benefit. From canals to rail to paved road, the internal combustion engine and the computer, all of it has resulted in growth. HS2 will be the same. Although sadly the British capacity for moaning about it will also be the same. However, I'm confident our grandchildren will find the idea of there not being a high speed rail network as odd as we would find the idea of there being no motorways.
I didn't say it'd give no benefit merely pointed out that unless it's heavily subsidised the benefits derived from it will be mitigated. I feel that more benefit would be derived from spreading improvements over a wider area. I studied history a very long time ago so may be wrong but IIRC when the railways and canals were being built the economy was expanding rapidly and there was the demand and the finances. They were not funded by central govt. but by private companies and wealthy industrialists. Moreover there were no viable alternatives then and now there are in the form of road and air travel. If a private company wants to finance, build and run HS2 and it's not going to wind up yet another long term burden on the taxpayer that's fine by me but given the history of our railways since Beeching, I feel it will become just that if it's to generate any significant growth. I'm not against rail but and agree we need better infrastructure but just think that we'd get more 'bang for the buck' in terms of growth from other measures (including rail) which could be implemented far quicker and over a far wider area than HS2 will ever be.

I suppose one means of estimating its risks and long term benefits v. costs to UK PLC would be to compare those same effects of Eurotunnel on our economy. It'd be interesting to know what they've been since it's been up and running.
__________________
Same Old Labour - the party of lies, spin, PFI, uncontrolled immigration, financial chaos, illegal wars & social engineering.

Last edited by Osem; 29-01-2013 at 09:57.
Osem is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Google Search




All times are GMT +1. The time now is 02:21.


Server: titan.cableforum.co.uk
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.9 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.


SEO by vBSEO 3.3.2